Got snow?

[lilac_jive]

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

yep, it's really expensive. they raised the prices a lot in the past few years, theoretically as a deterrent. i don't think that's going to deter anyone who REALLY wants to smoke, but combined with a lot of rather prominent anti-smoking campaigns and a general shift in the zeitgeist smokers are now suprisingly almost a minority. i used to not know anybody who didn't smoke (except for myself, before i started) ; now, i hardly know anybody who *does* smoke.

That's pretty much what happened here. Greece was the smokiest country I saw. Everyone smoked, even non-smokers.

[zelda_pinwheel]

well, france was like that too until recently. even speaking as an (ex) smoker, i was really relieved when they finally banned smoking in cafés and restaurants. spending a few hours with friends in one before the ban you came out surrounded by a stench of cigarette smoke so strong you could almost feel it, especially in winter when all the doors and windows are closed. beurk.

[lilac_jive]

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

well, france was like that too until recently. even speaking as an (ex) smoker, i was really relieved when they finally banned smoking in cafés and restaurants. spending a few hours with friends in one before the ban you came out surrounded by a stench of cigarette smoke so strong you could almost feel it, especially in winter when all the doors and windows are closed. beurk.

As long as you can still smoke outside, I'm ok with it. I don't really like smoky enclosed bars either.

[zelda_pinwheel]

Originally Posted by lilac_jive

As long as you can still smoke outside, I'm ok with it. I don't really like smoky enclosed bars either.

yep, that's the workaround, and a lot of bars have installed semi-enclosed terrasses with heaters for the smokers (in winter). so even in freezing weather, often the terrasse is full and the café is empty.

[lilac_jive]

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

yep, that's the workaround, and a lot of bars have installed semi-enclosed terrasses with heaters for the smokers (in winter). so even in freezing weather, often the terrasse is full and the café is empty.

That's awesome and unfair at the same time. We have nothing like that here

[zelda_pinwheel]

well, it's a difficult transition (although not nearly as difficult as i expected). smoking was really an integral part of the culture for a long time.

[lilac_jive]

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

well, it's a difficult transition (although not nearly as difficult as i expected). smoking was really an integral part of the culture for a long time.

It makes me wonder if it was this difficult in the US. I think it had a longer transition period though.

[Moejoe]

You can't smoke in pubs now over here in the UK. Where I live that has had only one consequence -- less pubs. Most of them in my area have closed down due to lack of custom. Nobody likes to stand outside, shivering, just because they smoke.

[zelda_pinwheel]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

You can't smoke in pubs now over here in the UK. Where I live that has had only one consequence -- less pubs. Most of them in my area have closed down due to lack of custom. Nobody likes to stand outside, shivering, just because they smoke.

that sounds really sad, but i think cafés are a more important part of culture here than smoking so they are not closing because of that, luckily ! we just shiver outside and then go back inside to get warm, if there is no heated terrasse. maybe we are just more stubborn (or hard-headed ) than the brits.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

that sounds really sad, but i think cafés are a more important part of culture here than smoking so they are not closing because of that, luckily ! we just shiver outside and then go back inside to get warm, if there is no heated terrasse. maybe we are just more stubborn (or hard-headed ) than the brits.

I wish we had a cafe culture, but alas, apart from enclosed cloisters of the major cities, we are a pub culture. Which means that if you are a smoker and want to socialise there's not many places you can go now, that is 'legally'. There's plenty of pubs that have 'closed doors' policies after closing and you can smoke all you like - kind of like speakeasies under prohibition

[zelda_pinwheel]

how do you differentiate between a café culture and a pub culture ? i drink beer in cafés as well, it only depends on the time of day (they will sell it any time, but i don't like it in the morning for instance). here a lot of people talk about the "café clope" (coffee and cigarette) but for me the real link is "bière clope" (beer and cigarette) or any alcoholised drink really (wine too) ; i guess i'm more of a social smoker (and social drinker). but i also am easily tempted to smoke when i am stressed.

the smoking speakeasies is pretty ironic though...

[Patricia]

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

that sounds really sad, but i think cafés are a more important part of culture here than smoking so they are not closing because of that, luckily ! we just shiver outside and then go back inside to get warm, if there is no heated terrasse. maybe we are just more stubborn (or hard-headed ) than the brits.

I think that a lot of Brits just buy cheap beer from the supermarket, invite their friends to bring some more, round and socialise at home. This saves a fair amount of money.

And cigarettes are well over £5 here; in fact, nearly £6.

[zelda_pinwheel]

Originally Posted by Patricia

I think that a lot of Brits just buy cheap beer from the supermarket, invite their friends to bring some more, round and socialise at home. This saves a fair amount of money.

And cigarettes are well over £5 here; in fact, nearly £6.

well, we do that too sometimes ; we call it an apéro.

wow, cigarettes are even more expensive there ! the irony is, here they are expensive, but in most neighboring countries they are a lot cheaper (spain, belgium...) ; so a lot of people living near the border just cross over, buy a carton, and come back.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

well, we do that too sometimes ; we call it an apéro.

wow, cigarettes are even more expensive there ! the irony is, here they are expensive, but in most neighboring countries they are a lot cheaper (spain, belgium...) ; so a lot of people living near the border just cross over, buy a carton, and come back.

Expensive if you buy them legally. You can walk into any of the still-remaining pubs and buy most cigarettes, tobacco and alchol at significant savings, also you can pick up any recently released CD, DVD or software, plus electrical goods and lots of other things. The grey market has exploded over here in the last few years, to staggering levels. You'll see thieves and coppers side by side buying the same goods from the same people. A blind eye is turned to the whole affair.

A pack of 20 cigarettes is around £5 ($7, €6) but in the pubs you can pick them up for £2.50 or thereabouts.

By the by, I'm in the North West, not far from Liverpool

[zelda_pinwheel]

now that i think of it though, i went to an apéro at a friend's house on friday ; there were about 10 of us i think, and only 2 smokers ; since the friend whose house we were at did not smoke, the smokers went to the window and opened it while they were smoking. it's a reasonably compromise ; the inside stayed pretty smoke-free. but it's not so practical in really cold weather.