cheap portable device for reading text pdf's

[brehon]

That's pretty much what I've been wondering about. I normally view pdfs in landscape/flow(scroll) mode with page fully streched to sides but with cropped bottom. So all I have to do is just scroll down, hence I don't mind widescreen displays like Nxtpaper 11.

On the other hand Nxtpaper 14 is awesome because it allows for fully sized A4 in portrait mode.

Might I also ask, does Nxtpaper 3.0 quality differs much from Nxtpaper 2.0 quality, especially when displaying text?

And thanks for the help, I am yet to decide what to buy, as I have time, but at least now I know what I'm into.

[Quoth]

There isn't a huge difference Nxtpaper 2.0 & Nxtpaper 3.0

Scrolling where there is only one page or only a few pages is doable, but it's ghastly for 50+ pages or even on one page that's columns.

So I ONLY view in landscape if it doesn't need scrolling!

[brehon]

Hey, back to this topic with some questions because TCL released Nxtpaper 11 Plus specs:
https://www.tcl.com/global/en/tablet...tpaper-11-plus

11.5" screen with 3:2 ratio and 229 ppi, 120Hz refresh, better CPU and of course Nxtpaper 4.0 screen. Honestly, I'm not impressed, there is no news on MSRP but roumor is it will be around EUR250 depending on region. Still no headphone jack or LTE by default.

For me the question is, what could Nxtpaper 4.0 bring over Nxtpaper 2.0 and 3.0? From text-reading perspective, I've found out that 2.0 has PWM while 3.0 is using DC Dimming. TCL also claims that 4.0 will have 100% sRGB color reproduction, but I doubt I will need it for reading text.

The only one thing that catches my attention is "60 million-level Nano-matrix lithography". I'm not entirely sure how that is supposed to work but I guess it could mean that image might look sharper? Which would mean that text could be shaper, perhaps look better than comparable 229 ppi devices?


As of sidenote, I have one more general question - does BW text looks better/shaper than color text on LCD displays? I am asking given that TCL Nxtpaper offers monochromatic mode for reading but wouldn't that get rid of sub-pixel rendering benefits? On the other hand, given how LCD panels are built, the BW part of panel is usually of higher resolution than colored part. Quite puzzling...

[Quoth]

It will be better than 300 dpi eink, because eink has only 14 grey levels, black and white. Colour eink is only 150 dpi unless you want artefacts.

Confusing naming because the Nxtpaper 14 pro is simply a higher refresh rate of the Nxtpaper 14, but same aspect ratio and size and both Nxtpaper 3.0. Yet, the Nxtpaper 11 (not pro) is 10.9" and almost 16:10 aspect. The Nxtpaper 11 pro at 3:2 and 11.5" is better.

There isn't an obvious difference between Nxtpaper 2.0 and Nxtpaper 3.0 (I have both). The original Nxtpaper isn't so bright in daylight.

The difference between PWM and so called DC on any decent device is not discernible. DC Dimming as well as anti-blue light are marketing tick boxes except on poor products.



But for PDFs and magazines the 14.25" is far better than 11. 5".

does BW text looks better/shaper than color text on LCD displays? I am asking given that TCL Nxtpaper offers monochromatic mode for reading but wouldn't that get rid of sub-pixel rendering benefits?

The monochrome and color eink modes are gimmicks. No advantage over sRGB mode in an application like Pocketbook and screen brightness properly set on the Nxtpaper 14. A marketing thing. The monochrome is simulated, just as it is on a colour CRT, Plasma, LCD, OLED, real LED or eink (Kaleido or Gallery). When a display panel can do colour then that is always there. Any kind of technology based on additive R G B (or R G and G B 2 x2 cells etc) can still do sub-pixel addressing to enhance edges to an extent, though it's poorer on anything other than vertical stripes as the fonts need enhanced in the horizontal direction and adjacent vertical pixels on Kaleido or other non-stripe layouts (common also on OLED) aren't the same colour, but need to be.

Actually above 200 dpi the subpixel addressing is often not used. It's more of benefit for 72 dpi to 130 dpi.

So, no monochrome mode is no different to colour mode on an application using mono anyway. On eink Kaleido the 300 dpi mono mode can result in coloured artefacts, so there is usually an option to "reduce rainbows" which simply renders at 150dpi.

[brehon]

Hello, once again back to this topic.

I've decided that I will need two devices, one large portable tablet for home/office use and second small tool for outdoors and pocket carry.

For the first one it's between "Nxtpaper 11 Plus" and "Nxtpaper 14", just waiting with final decision for more reviews and avilability.


The second one is more tricky, let me repeat from my first post in this topic:

90% of time I will need it to read pdf files, and those are not normal books but poorly formatted business documents from multiple sources. This means that some will be better and others worse - formatting, font types and sizes, pictures, tables, all kinds of stuff will vary between documents. Good thing is, I can just skip worst formatted files and read them on bigger screen. Also I have limited ways of editing some of those pdfs, so I can change type or size of font without big damage to document structure(lets say 1-2 sizes only but that's still huge difference). I don't need any other features like sound, camera, notetaking or stylus.

Right now I am using my LG G6 phone, that is 1440 x 2880, 564ppi device with 600nits. The actual screen has 138.7mm / 69.3mm dimensions and I am reading those documents in landscape mode actively scrolling down(almost line-by-line). While obviously it sounds like a horrible experience, I do it mainly when I am doing daily stuff, like idling, riding a bus or waiting in queue or coffeshop. I do believe that desipite small size of my device high resolution helps alot but I am seeking for somthing better(and usage in bright daylight is limited but not impossible).

I have few devices on my mind, all of those are second-hand so I will also list prices:

Kindle Paperwhite 3/4: $50-75, actual screen size 117mm / 86mm quite scares me, portrait mode reading will be almost impossible but with such dimensions landscape is also small. Not to mention that I will have to scroll a lot and Kindles aren't best devices for such use. E-Ink Carta 300ppi.

Likebook Mars: $110, actual screen size 158.5mm / 119mm which is bit bigger than my phone. E-Ink Carta 300ppi. A2 fast refresh mode might help with landscape scrolling and Android OS allows for more software.

Pocketbook Inkpad 2(840-2): $110, actual screen size 162.6mm / 122.2mm, similar to Likebook Mars but it's E-Ink Pearl 250ppi screen instead. Possible scrolling issues in landscape.

Hisense A9: $190, actual screen size 138.7mm / 69.3mm, just like my LG G6 phone but it has E-Ink Carta 300ppi screen. Refresh rate is pretty good for e-ink so landscape scrolling will be possible and it's Android OS.

Nxtpaper 40(or Nxtpaper 50 Pro): $110++, actual screen size 154.5mm(158.3mm) / 69.5mm, width is almost like Likebook Mars, both LCD with 395ppi and 400(500)nits, Android OS. Nice anti-glare features and size allows for landscape scrolling but I am afraid of sunny days.

[Quoth]

The Nxtpaper 40 I have is fine in direct sunlight.

Forget about any PDF bigger than A5 on anything less than 10″.

SW support on any Android eink is erratic. No doubt a Boox is better than the Meebook/Likebook Android eink. Mars is obsolete and only Android 8, some are earlier. Likebook replaced by Meebook models. The Sage is as good run time as Mars on battery and far better for epub. Marginally better for PDF now that Kobo has per document crop. But only for up to A5 size PDFs.

Due to aspect ratio, the phones are nothing like as good as 6.8″ to 8″ eink ereaders as they are about 3:4 aspect. Landscape & scrolling is rubbish. Even on Nxtpaper 11 & Nxtpaper 14 I only use landscape for books formatted as "mass market" AKA "pocket book" format. Well, the Nxtpaper 14 can manage larger Trade size format if font not too small, even without crop.

[brehon]

I know that those devices I listed are too small for comfort use, but they are also cheap and portable, and I need them for outdoors usage, including on sunny days.

For example, I specifically named 7.8" Likebook Mars because I've read that it has "A2 refresh mode" that could allow for scrolling in landscape mode, something you don't want to do on conventional e-ink devices. Of course I totally agree it's too small for normal pdfs in portrait mode, in fact IMHO it's too small for both A4 and A5 in portrait(assuming standard text pdf with font size 10). But A5 in landscape with cropped margins could be possible if "A2 refresh mode" would allow for smoother scrolling(I've only heard about it so I have no clue if it's even possible). As I wrote, the measured screen dimensions of Likebook Mars is 158.5mm/119mm, where A5 paper dimensions are 210mm/148mm.

The only thing that comes to my mind is that Nxtpaper 40 and Nxtpaper 50 Pro would also have around 155mm width(in landscape mode) and because they are LCD, the text should be crispier than on E-Ink, and scrolling would be perfect.

Because you've said you had both Likebook Mars and Nxtpaper 40, which one would you get for A5 landscape scrolling mode? As I said, I know those are both bad choices but still better than what I got.

[nana77]

Originally Posted by brehon

Hey, back to this topic with some questions because TCL released Nxtpaper 11 Plus specs:
https://www.tcl.com/global/en/tablet...tpaper-11-plus

11.5" screen with 3:2 ratio and 229 ppi, 120Hz refresh, better CPU and of course Nxtpaper 4.0 screen. Honestly, I'm not impressed, there is no news on MSRP but roumor is it will be around EUR250 depending on region. Still no headphone jack or LTE by default.

For me the question is, what could Nxtpaper 4.0 bring over Nxtpaper 2.0 and 3.0? From text-reading perspective, I've found out that 2.0 has PWM while 3.0 is using DC Dimming. TCL also claims that 4.0 will have 100% sRGB color reproduction, but I doubt I will need it for reading text.

The only one thing that catches my attention is "60 million-level Nano-matrix lithography". I'm not entirely sure how that is supposed to work but I guess it could mean that image might look sharper? Which would mean that text could be shaper, perhaps look better than comparable 229 ppi devices?


As of sidenote, I have one more general question - does BW text looks better/shaper than color text on LCD displays? I am asking given that TCL Nxtpaper offers monochromatic mode for reading but wouldn't that get rid of sub-pixel rendering benefits? On the other hand, given how LCD panels are built, the BW part of panel is usually of higher resolution than colored part. Quite puzzling...

Hi, imho if you find a second hand tablet within Oled display, it could be better, specially for eyestrain, as the black pixels on those screens are disabled/off (otherwhise on LCD/IPS there is a background light anyway). If you can menage to read the documents within black background, that way could be better (imho). I guess that there are devices in that price range (e.g. Samsung Galaxy series).

[nana77]

Originally Posted by brehon

Greetings,

I am looking for a cheap portable device for reading pdf's, both indoors and outdoors(albeit indoors more often). Obviously for quality I should go for large e-ink tablets but those do cost alot, hence I am considering alternatives.

Lets start with the fact that I don't know the size needed. Either wide tablet for landscape view or really wide phone. For the reference, currently I am using LG G6 phone(permanently in comfort view) in landscape mode with Moon+ Reader(also got Librera and ReadEra). Screen might seem quite small and indeed it's not easy but I do have some success. Perhaps it's because G6 has rather good 18:9 IPS screen, with HDR10, 1440 x 2880 resoution, 564ppi and 2410Hz PWM which doesn't kick in when brightness is set to be bit over 35%. Outdoor reading is hard, especially in bright sun but I rarely use it this way and phone offers rather high brightness levels to compensate. So the biggest drawback is screen size, it's 5.1 inch wide and I would need it to be wider so I was wondering just on bigger phone with some nice screen.

I've noticed that TCL NxtPaper 40 phones are quite popular lately albeit I don't know if they are worth all the fuss, as it seems they are just using modified matte LCD screens. Some reviews note that they also have low resolution, low ppi, only 150nits and PWM. The special view modes seem to be just marketing hype as any phone can enable most of this stuff in developer options or with custom apps. Apparently it's also using shared memory instead of own RAM. Moreover software seems to be scarry, some proprietary boot-locked Android with unknown amounts of possible unremovable bloatware(sadly LG G6 has similar problem, not only LG software draws lot of power even when idle but also 4G only works with LG OS).

But I must admit, technically I have no idea what to look at when checking for LCD screen for reading, I know reflections and glare are most horrible and TCL seems to be good at mitigating those, but should I care much about screen parameters like brightness levels, ppi, resolution, PWM?

I've also read that there are many new attempts, like RLCD and similar screens but I have no idea how such compare to normal LCD or NxtPaper ones. And what's with availability and prices?

Also, speaking of size and functionality, it could a be full device like android phone/tablet, with apps, calls and web but it could also be specialized device with just basic reading functions and no outside connections(except for a way to copy pdf's). And as I said, it could be tablet size, albeit I would probably prefer something that is wide for landscape(hence I also mention those 21:9 phones).

Even in case of full device, I completely don't care about stuff like cameras, CPU/GPU speeds, stylus or any extra functions beyond pdf reading functionality because the only stuff that I would do beside pdf's would be probably basic phone functions and some minor web browsing.

And when it comes to money, I prefer to spend as little as possible which includes buying outdated/used stuff that works just fine.


On sidenote, I'm also wondering if there's any free android app for reading pdf's that would let me to manually select pdf colors(mainly text and background). There's plenty of such apps for Windows and Linux but I haven't found anything for android yet.

Sorry if this would look weird, but for that case (imho again) an old laptop (sold at 70/80$) like the Thinkpad T480/T60 -and similar- series has a 4:3 screen, wich also is TFT matte: probably you would have to repleace a battery with a new one... but they where well build, within slots for auxiliary batteries too (if I recall it correctly), a good keyboard within the mouse button in the middle (some of those models -but it's not easy to find exacly- has a very good set of keycaps).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThinkPad_T_series
https://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?t=15457
You can easily menage to install a lightweight distribuition as Operating System.
The Thinkpad X230T has a convertible screen..

[nana77]

Last spam, promised: Wacom MobileStudio Pro 13 Core i5 128GB at 300$ it's quite a deal.

[brehon]

Originally Posted by nana77

Hi, imho if you find a second hand tablet within Oled display, it could be better, specially for eyestrain, as the black pixels on those screens are disabled/off (otherwhise on LCD/IPS there is a background light anyway). If you can menage to read the documents within black background, that way could be better (imho). I guess that there are devices in that price range (e.g. Samsung Galaxy series).

Never had any modern OLED device but I've heard that they have horrible PWM rates and could have burn-in issues with static books.

Sorry if this would look weird, but for that case (imho again) an old laptop (sold at 70/80$) like the Thinkpad T480/T60 -and similar- series has a 4:3 screen, wich also is TFT matte: probably you would have to repleace a battery with a new one... but they where well build, within slots for auxiliary batteries too (if I recall it correctly), a good keyboard within the mouse button in the middle (some of those models -but it's not easy to find exacly- has a very good set of keycaps).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThinkPad_T_series
https://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?t=15457
You can easily menage to install a lightweight distribuition as Operating System.
The Thinkpad X230T has a convertible screen..

I was wondering about convertible/2in1 laptop but realized that all those good options with nice screens, high ppi and good brightness levels do cost almost as much as new tablets. I've even considered odd screens like PixelQi with Thinkpad body, but again the cost and effort would be more than it's worth. But some people did it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNLMDiFjCjo

Weight of those laptops is also a downside, and power consumption/battery life dubious.

Last spam, promised: Wacom MobileStudio Pro 13 Core i5 128GB at 300$ it's quite a deal.

This thing looks neat, I didn't even know it exists. Sadly, several downsides: with 13.3" screen 16:9 is not that good for reading, battery life is probably short(and hard to replace), peak brightness is low and device itself is on the heavier side. I guess it's great for drawing and multimedia use but as an E-Book reader probably overkill.

[Quoth]

OLED isn't LEDs in the normal sense. They are diode-like electroluminescent dots with phosphors, so the they are limited in brightness and and life. The phosphors age and suffer burn-in like CRTs.

Decent LCD screens don't have glowy blacks, uniess backlight is too bright. Cheaper ones have a lightpipe behind and only edge LEDs. Ones good in full sunlight have arrays of LEDs and some can vary these to off on large black areas.

Often people have the brightness on OLED or LCD too high.

Matte, non-reflective screens (like Nxtpaper) have existed for decades (even on CRTs) but are rare because shiny polished glass is cheaper. Gorilla glass and sapphire are very expensive to make matte.

QLED is the brightest screen for sun, or lowest power consumption LCD, because it uses real blue LEDs as the back light and instead of red, green and blue dots or stripes which dramanically dim the light (see Triton filtered eink!), there are red and green quantum dots that change blue to red and green. White LEDs are really blue to violet with a yellow phosphor. The cheaper "White" LED backlights (or edge lights on cheap panels) have a bluish or magenta caste. The colour changes with ages. So some Sony LCD panels use mixed red, green and blue backlights as this is more efficient (or brighter) and doesn't age.

There is actually no proper evidence that "blue" keeps you awake, it's the content that stimulates. Reflection is the commonest cause of headaches, followed by too bright. The peak white should only be the same or less than paper under the current ambient illumination.

Maybe three makers do non-reflective panels. TCL's Nxtpaper is the best and used withe OLED and LCD displays. TCL and Samsung are the two main QLED panel makers. You don't really need QLED on a TV, though that is were they are common, unless you only view in a very bright room.

Only rubbish LCD panels don't do decent blacks.

[nana77]

Thanks, at least I'd understood why on ereaders the light night can be on red, and not in the more calm blue.
@brethon: would a 10" ereader fit your needs? In the second hands I see Kindle Scribe (first generation), Kindle DX' second generation (https://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/Kindle_DX).
Sending PDF to Kindles seems quite straightforward, by sending the doc to email... Those 10" devices stands on ebay at 100$ or less too..
(https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=85349)

Edit: last try, Nanote P8

The Nanote P8 is a miniature laptop computer with a 7 inch, 1920 x 1200 pixel IPS LCD touchscreen display, QWERTY keyboard, and a 360-degree hinge that lets you fold the screen back and use the little computer as a tablet.

It will be available for purchased in Japan soon for less than $300, making it one of the more affordable mini-laptops launched in recent years. But it’s not exactly going to be a speed demon. Some of the Nanote P8’s specs look a little dated in 2021.

https://liliputing.com/nanote-p8-is-...-300-in-japan/
I guess manufacture in China, not Japan: it's a spin-off of the first GPD-Pocket (that now I saw has grown its price on sales).

[Quoth]

The Kindle DX or Kindle DXG is worse than a Paperwhite 3 or later for PDFs. Too slow and only 150 dpi. Also there is no WiFi and the Cell/Mobile needed is gone in most countries. They also need a new battery by now.

Send to Kindle can't be used by legal, corporate or privacy conscious people as Amazon gets a copy. You can't email direct to your Kindle.

Also only the Scribe is big enough for PDFs, but for full functionality you have to send it to Amazon and download a KFX to the Kindle, then send the Annotated version back to Amazon. No-one else requires you to convert PDFs for annotation. However the Scribe isn't big enough for all PDFs.

The 7″ Nanote P8 is far too small for PDFs, and even a 17″ in landscape at 1920 x 1080 isn't tall enough pixels for A4 PDFs.

[brehon]

Originally Posted by nana77

Thanks, at least I'd understood why on ereaders the light night can be on red, and not in the more calm blue.
@brethon: would a 10" ereader fit your needs? In the second hands I see Kindle Scribe (first generation), Kindle DX' second generation (https://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/Kindle_DX).
Sending PDF to Kindles seems quite straightforward, by sending the doc to email... Those 10" devices stands on ebay at 100$ or less too..
(https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=85349)

Edit: last try, Nanote P8

https://liliputing.com/nanote-p8-is-...-300-in-japan/
I guess manufacture in China, not Japan: it's a spin-off of the first GPD-Pocket (that now I saw has grown its price on sales).

Yes, I was considering Kindle Scribe as my bigger device but this whole debacle with converting files using Amazon services drives me off. Moreover I'm not sure if 10.2" screen is big enough, where I can get Nxtpaper 11 Plus or Nxtpaper 14 in similar price range. Additionally, Scribe doesn't have any special refresh rate mode and with that screen size I would probably need to scroll a lot in landscape mode when using pdfs with tiny fonts.

As my for my smaller, portable device, it's between Nxtpaper 40 phone and ~7.8" E-Ink reader with fast refresh and margin cropping(like Likebook Mars). Measured screen width of both devices is nearly same, and as I expect lots of scrolling in landscape mode it goes down to question, do I need E-Ink or will matte LCD be enough. Preferred use is outdoors on sunny days.

In general I prefer as high ppi as possible and screen anti-glare and anti-reflection capabilities. For LCDs I also look at peak brightness values and PWM frequencies(so screens with no PWM or as high as possible).

btw. Some people recommended me second-hand Apple tablets with Mothca screen protectors as an alternative to Nxtpaper but I doubt I will go that way.


One more thing, I've noticed that you have 300ppi 8" Kobo Forma listed as your device, that's close to 7.8" Likebook Mars dimensions. Have you ever tried to open A4 or A5 pdf file with font size 10 or similar? And do you think it's readable, either in portrait or landscape? Also how's the scrolling using fast refresh?