British vs American spelling in books?

[issybird]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

, but not enough to get worked up over.

Heh. I get worked up over it. In my current listen, the narrator mispronounces Compton Mackenzie and Chocorua. Over and over. In general, I wish audiobooks were better produced with an awareness of tricky words.

[tomsem]

In most cases, a simple search and replace can take care of translating to the preferred spelling. Could even be a feature of the reading software to do it on the fly.

[arjaybe]

Originally Posted by issybird

Heh. I get worked up over it. In my current listen, the narrator mispronounces Compton Mackenzie and Chocorua. Over and over. In general, I wish audiobooks were better produced with an awareness of tricky words.

I always look up the pronunciation of words I'm not sure of when recording stories. Of course, that doesn't account for the words I am sure of but wrong about anyway.-)

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by j.p.s

I would be disappointed if the foundation has a policy in either direction or if there are users with an agenda of gratuitously changing the spelling in either direction.

They do have a US spelling and usage preference policy for English. I've seen it, but can't remember how to find it.

They are also dim about IT, blocking entire IP ranges (just for editing) even if they decide one IP is a co-located server in a data centre. This blocks loads or residential users from editing. Many ISPs also have data centres which offer co-location. Also why should they even care if the browser is on a co-located server?

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by tomsem

In most cases, a simple search and replace can take care of translating to the preferred spelling. Could even be a feature of the reading software to do it on the fly.

But is that cultural vandalism or cultural imperialism?
Especially if retailer or application does it automatically bd on your location.

And what about dialect? USA regions, regions in parts of UK and Ireland. Canada. Australia, South Africa, Kenya vs Black New York, India etc.

Any automatic spelling change is both fantasy and destructive.

[tomsem]

Originally Posted by Quoth

But is that cultural vandalism or cultural imperialism?
Especially if retailer or application does it automatically bd on your location.

And what about dialect? USA regions, regions in parts of UK and Ireland. Canada. Australia, South Africa, Kenya vs Black New York, India etc.

Any automatic spelling change is both fantasy and destructive.

In case I was not clear, I would prefer the English spelling (and dialect) of the original English work, at least if it is from last couple of centuries. But publishers do not always make that available (e.g. Harry Potter in USA).

It's not possible, working with the watered-down-for-dumb-American-children Harry Potter text to restore the original, as changes aren't restricted to spelling alone. It would be neat if they would include both in the same container, and it were possible to toggle between them. But we must have our regional copyrights it seems.

But doing automatic spelling change is certainly feasible, even if it is a goofy idea. I would not regard it as 'destructive', but perhaps pointless, since it isn't going really an issue with understanding what the text says.

[jackm8]

Originally Posted by issybird

Heh. I get worked up over it. In my current listen, the narrator mispronounces Compton Mackenzie and Chocorua. Over and over. In general, I wish audiobooks were better produced with an awareness of tricky words.

Which one, If I may ask? I'm just reading Compton's Sinister Street.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by tomsem

It's not possible, working with the watered-down-for-dumb-American-children Harry Potter text to restore the original, as changes aren't restricted to spelling alone. It would be neat if they would include both in the same container, and it were possible to toggle between them. But we must have our regional copyrights it seems.

But doing automatic spelling change is certainly feasible, even if it is a goofy idea. I would not regard it as 'destructive', but perhaps pointless, since it isn't going really an issue with understanding what the text says.

I wasn't thinking of the case where you are reversing stupid decisions by US publishers of non-US English works. Indeed trying to reverse it is laudable.

But Geo-restriction of books is evil, especially of ebooks. You should be able to buy the unmangled version. So in the case you mention it's not destructive. However I still don't think an automatic spelling changer will work. For example, imagine a book set mostly outside USA and they visit New York. Maybe a guy is a spy and has a convincing accent. So the publisher makes everything American. How do you know which bits to leave as American doing it automatically?

It's not just spellings, but word use.
UK/Ireland -- USA
rubber - eraser
boot (car) - trunk
bonnet - hood (car), or child's hat, or historical a lady's hat
pavement - sidewalk
faggots - sticks or shaped mince (context).
bottom - fanny
fanny - Umm, not the rear!
trousers - pants
tights - pantyhose
stockings. Hmm, depends on context and era. Might mean long socks, or silk/nylon stockings (garters, suspenders, elastic tops) before tights. Tights did exist before the all-in-one nylons.
hose - hose pipe or footless leggings or with feet.
stomacher - a "waist", obsolete garment.
braces (trousers) - suspenders (pants).
braces also are the metal things on teeth
A bracer can be a drink or elongated protective cuff
leggings I - yoga pants. Not actually a recent invention.
leggings II - chapps? The things riders and agricultural workers wear on top of trousers (pants / jeans).
yoga pants - clothing worn while actually doing yoga
waistcoat - vest
vest (underwear: all children, but mostly male adults) - undershirt
Jumper, Pullover, Jersey, Gansey - sweater
Pinafore, pinny (Dress) - jumper?
pants - pants (breath) or lower underwear
silencer (car or gun) = muffler. Some times the gun silencer is called a muffler. In real life the gun is still quite loud.
muffler - a kind of scarf. Muff is for the hands. Sometimes a gun silencer (even on artillery & tanks!)
shuck (Ireland) - ditch
shuck off (UK) - cast off (clothing)
Whiskey = Irish Whiskey in English
Whisky = Whisky made everywhere else in UK.
Brogues, a kind of shoe with punched strips, or in parts of Ireland any shoe.
rubber boots, dunlops, wellies, wellington boots - galoshes
Original Wellington boots leather with knee flap?
A shoe is always below the ankle or else it's a kind of boot.
tackies, gutties, gym shoes, runners, trainers - sneakers
(A sneak is someone that tells tales maliciously, esp to teachers in a school).
And very many words where context matters.

Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone is bizarrely called Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone in the USA.
This is why that is crazy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosopher%27s_stone

I can't see how without the original you can automatically fix an edition corrupted by a publisher for another market. They've manually changed it. You'd need the original, but then your problem is solved.

I've never read a USA authored text that a publisher has "converted" to British. The words and spellings are always original. Before the Internet I had no idea what a highball, whisky sour or a waist (item of young woman's clothing) was. Even though I worked for a while in Ohio in early 1980s.

[tomsem]

Yes, a script would need a comprehensive phrase translation table. as well. But ChatGPT can do it!

You forgot WC == bathroom

I worked at Autodesk on a product called Autodesk WorkCenter. When I joined the team, they made a point of telling me never to refer to it as 'WC', but always 'AWC' (as they no doubt had to remind upper management, marketing etc). Half the team was originally from British Isles.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by jackm8

Which one, If I may ask? I'm just reading Compton's Sinister Street.

The narrator says "compton" instead of "cumpton"; the latter is correct. And Chocorua has the stress on the second syllable, not on the first and third.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by tomsem

Yes, a script would need a comprehensive phrase translation table. as well. But ChatGPT can do it!

In your dreams, or only because it's already "scraped" a pirate copy of the original!

I've been doing proof reading for 10+ years solid and off and on before.
I got into SW in the first place due to an interest in AI. It can't do the context.
I switch off autocorrect on phone and Wordprocessor. A menace.

You forgot WC == bathroom

No, I didn't. It wasn't comprehensive. I've hardly seen W.C. (Water Closet as opposed to Earth Closet) used in anything written or spoken in over 50 years. It's a toilet or loo.

An aside. Traditionally public toilets in Ireland didn't have M and F, actually often you had to use a pub or hotel.
Irish for Men is Fir and Women is Bean (pronounced ban as in banish), but sometimes Irish it's Mná.
Tomorrow 6th Jan is last day of Christmas, or in parts of Ireland “Nollaig na mBan” (literally. the Christmas of the Women).
an bhean (pronounced a bit like awn van) means the woman is here. But "an mná" means of the woman, so the woman's toilet would have had Mná on it. A female garda (like police but guns are rare) was a "ban garda", but now they are just garda.
But bán is white.
The little accents are very important. Garda Síochána is Irish for peace guardian. In Irish the adjectives etc often go after.

[Aleron Ives]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone is bizarrely called Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone in the USA.

It's insulting, but it's not bizarre. The publisher assumed Americans were too dumb to have heard of the philosopher's stone, so they would see the word "philosopher" in the title and not want to read it, because who wants to read a children's philosophy book? Thus the title got changed, because the rest of the world assumes (with cause) that Americans are stupid.

[Uncle Robin]

One of my favo(u)rite examples of the inconsistencies that plague this particular minefield (not nearly enough metaphors mixed there, I know) is the word "soccer". Whenever people from the UK froth and insist it's "football" (the term I use in my idiolect) I love reminding them that the word "soccer" was coined in the UK.

The simple reality is, of course, that standardised orthography is simply a conspiracy foised on our ancestors by the lazy yobs at Caxton-era printeries who couldn't be bothered setting type for both eggs AND eyren

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by Aleron Ives

It's insulting, but it's not bizarre. The publisher assumed Americans were too dumb to have heard of the philosopher's stone, so they would see the word "philosopher" in the title and not want to read it, because who wants to read a children's philosophy book? Thus the title got changed, because the rest of the world assumes (with cause) that Americans are stupid.

Really, that's why? If so the publishers for US are certifiable. That's a truly bizarre logic.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by DNSB

The problem with spelling and typography is the number of people who will insist that way that they learned it is the only way. See post #4 in this thread for a fine example.

I didn't say UK spelling isn't OK to have. Butt the UK uses a mix of UK and US punctuation. So we may as well get the UK to standardize on the US way.