Books on Calligraphy and Penmanship

[Phogg]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

Your previous post did not seem to take a middle ground.

I happen to agree with you that cursive script is not important. Unfortunately, my brother wasn't even taught to print legibly. His school went one step further than you advocate; they abandoned penmanship entirely. Given that many people say insist on "getting her on a keyboard as soon as possible", do you really think schools will take a middle ground or do you think they will follow my brother's school and abandon penmanship entirely?

Penmanship is more important than computer skills at that age because legible handwriting takes so much time to learn. Use of a computer is much easier. The one part that is time intensive is typing, and that can be learned at home with a piece of software.

Sorry I wasn't clear to begin with. I consider printing more basic and connect it closer to drafting than to penmanship. I guess because the term penmanship wasn't used in my school until we got to cursive. Perhaps we weren't expected to have that much vocabulary yet?

Anyway, I do expect printing to be taught.

[desertgrandma]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

Your previous post did not seem to take a middle ground.

I happen to agree with you that cursive script is not important.

You are both so wrong. As long as they are in school, cursive script IS important.

I know what I'm talking about here. If you can't make yourself understood thru your writing, your work could very likely be tossed into the trash.

[Phogg]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

You are both so wrong. As long as they are in school, cursive script IS important.

I know what I'm talking about here. If you can't make yourself understood thru your writing, your work could very likely be tossed into the trash.

I work at a business. i don't want to decipher anyone's cursive.

In fact, if it is a note I demand it be in electronic form so I can have it on my phone instead of carrying a wad of papers or a big portfolio around. Once it is on someones phone, furthermore, it can quickly be sent to anyone else's phone who needs the memo.

Not only do I not want Cursive, I don't want paper. Period. It takes too much time, is too easily lost, and creates clutter.

[desertgrandma]

Originally Posted by Phogg

I work at a business. i don't want to decipher anyone's cursive.

In fact, if it is a note I demand it be in electronic form so I can have it on my phone instead of carrying a wad of papers or a big portfolio around. Once it is on someones phone, furthermore, it can quickly be sent to anyone else's phone who needs the memo.

Not only do I not want Cursive, I don't want paper. Period. It takes too much time, is too easily lost, and creates clutter.

But, this is YOUR opinion. Most business don't operate strictly in electronic form.

And its my opinion that I wouldn't want to do business with someone with such practices.

[Nate the great]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

You are both so wrong. As long as they are in school, cursive script IS important.

I know what I'm talking about here. If you can't make yourself understood thru your writing, your work could very likely be tossed into the trash.

If someone can print legibly, then cursive is unimportant.

On the other hand, I suspect that when cursive is dropped from the curriculum, an equal amount of time for printing script must replace it because students cannot print legibly yet.

[desertgrandma]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

If someone can print legibly, then cursive is unimportant. Not. If. You. Are. In. School. And you have 12 yrs of that.

On the other hand, I suspect that when cursive is dropped from the curriculum, an equal amount of time for printing script must replace it because students cannot print legibly yet.

Why would cursive be dropped from the curriculum? We should be insisting on more legibility, not less.

[Nate the great]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

If someone can print legibly, then cursive is unimportant. Not. If. You. Are. In. School. And you have 12 yrs of that.

On the other hand, I suspect that when cursive is dropped from the curriculum, an equal amount of time for printing script must replace it because students cannot print legibly yet.

If the same information can be conveyed in print as in cursive, then why is cursive important?

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

Why would cursive be dropped from the curriculum? We should be insisting on more legibility, not less.

It already has been dropped from my brother's school. That's why he doesn't know how to do it.

[Phogg]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

Why would cursive be dropped from the curriculum? We should be insisting on more legibility, not less.

Because ten years from graduation, they will use it as often as I still use a slide rule. or get meat out of the ice house, or go to a livery stable, or get milk from a milk man.

Paper communications in general (let alone cursive) are becoming obsolete.

Just look at the topic of the forum you are posting on.

I want more books with less space in my home taken up.
I am willing to expend considerable capitol to make this happen.
With businesses that must keep lots of records, this is true to an even greater extent.

[desertgrandma]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

If the same information can be conveyed in print as in cursive, then why is cursive important?

Because, if we don't teach it to our young ones, how will they be able to understand any written documents? The entire process will be lost forever. And for what?


It already has been dropped from my brother's school. That's why he doesn't know how to do it.

I say "shame" on your brothers school, and the administrators who decided this. But thats just me.

[desertgrandma]

Originally Posted by Phogg

Because ten years from graduation, they will use it as often as I still use a slide rule. or get meat out of the ice house, or go to a livery stable, or get milk from a milk man.

Paper communications in general (let alone cursive) are becoming obsolete.

Just look at the topic of the forum you are posting on.

I want more books with less space in my home taken up.
I am willing to expend considerable capitol to make this happen.
With businesses that must keep lots of records, this is true to an even greater extent.

So, you are saying, that within 12+10 years, that would be 22 years from now, every business, every school, will be completely electronically run?

I think that's a very optimistic viewpoint on your end.

Understand. I do all my banking online. I pay my bills online. I email and text. I have no problem with e-books, or e-bills, or ordering online. I don't live in a cave.

I just don't see the value of tossing, what, how many years have we written in cursive?

To me, thats a step backwards. Like Kindles and paper books, both can co-exist.

[Patricia]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

If the same information can be conveyed in print as in cursive, then why is cursive important?

Because cursive writing is faster than printing. And the hand gets tired more quickly with printing; whereas a person can write for several hours in cursive writing without the legibility deteriorating.

I mark a couple of hundred examination scripts each summer. These are three-hour papers. The candidates who print their answers tend to have a noticeable deterioration in legibility, whereas the candidates using a joined-up script (either round-hand or an Italian hand) seem to be more likely to maintain legibility.

[Seabound]

For those who would like to indulge more in the "lost art of handwriting," I highly recommend acquiring a good-quality fountain pen. Good ones can be had inexpensively these days. Even permanent ink is available (Noodlers). Writing with a fountain pen is one of the finer joys, and a fountain pen is made for cursive writing. Some authors still write first drafts of complete novels using a fountain pen.

This whole thread makes it appear like learning cursive handwriting is very difficult. I really don't think it is all that difficult.

[Seabound]

Originally Posted by Patricia

Because cursive writing is faster than printing. And the hand gets tired more quickly with printing; whereas a person can write for several hours in cursive writing without the legibility deteriorating.

I mark a couple of hundred examination scripts each summer. These are three-hour papers. The candidates who print their answers tend to have a noticeable deterioration in legibility, whereas the candidates using a joined-up script (either round-hand or an Italian hand) seem to be more likely to maintain legibility.

Yes, from my experience, writing in cursive is faster and less tiring than printing in block.

[Phogg]

Originally Posted by Patricia

Because cursive writing is faster than printing. And the hand gets tired more quickly with printing; whereas a person can write for several hours in cursive writing without the legibility deteriorating.

I mark a couple of hundred examination scripts each summer. These are three-hour papers. The candidates who print their answers tend to have a noticeable deterioration in legibility, whereas the candidates using a joined-up script (either round-hand or an Italian hand) seem to be more likely to maintain legibility.

Cursive in business and (increasingly) in college is not competing with block printing.

It is competing with typing, and already in some venues - with voice recognition.

In a related note, it isn't the least bit pitch dark at night in my little town, even though the town hasn't hired a lamplighter since I've been here.

[mjh215]

Originally Posted by Seabound

For those who would like to indulge more in the "lost art of handwriting," I highly recommend acquiring a good-quality fountain pen. Good ones can be had inexpensively these days. Even permanent ink is available (Noodlers). Writing with a fountain pen is one of the finer joys, and a fountain pen is made for cursive writing. Some authors still write first drafts of complete novels using a fountain pen.

Anyone interested in a cheap (pretty much the cheapest) fountain pen to try out I can highly recommend Pilot's Varsity (US), or VPen/V4 (Europe). (For cheap but non-disposable check out Lamy Safari's)

-MJ