NYT article about how used book sales are the main culprit for publishing woes

[zelda_pinwheel]

Originally Posted by HarryT

You can't afford to spend $10 on an eBook, but you can afford a computer???

i certainly can't. not when i fact it's 10$ per week, or in fact more (i read at least 5 books a month on average). that's at least 50$ per month, or 600$ per year, which is a considerable sum. i *wish* i had that much extra cash but i don't.

a computer on the other hand is essential to me since i work freelance and it's how i get my work done. if i don't have a computer, i can't work, never mind all the rest. despite that, i still don't spend 600$ per year on my computer. i upgrade only when i have to, and i upgrade piece by piece when possible and replace the components myself. it's really not comparable at all. i did just change the complete heart of my computer and buy a new tower as well, and that cost me about 600€ (i kept my old hard drives and dvd burner, which i installed myself in the new tower) ; i plan to amortise that over about 5 years, like i did with the one i replaced.

i know people who have very old computers because they have no reason to upgrade for what they do on it. a couple of years ago i helped a friend choose a new portable computer to replace her old one, which was still running Windows 3.1 (i think the screen was in black and white in fact). i also know people who use the computer at their job, but don't have one at home at all, because they don't need one enough to justify the expense.

used bookstores and libraries (and now, project gutenberg et al.) have been invaluable to me ; without them i certainly could never have afforded all the books i've read, and i would never have discovered all the brilliant authors i've taken chances on. for free, i'll try anything. for 1€, i'll try something that looks interesting even if i'm not positive i'll like it. for 10€, i want to be sure.

i do buy books new sometimes, if it's an author i know and appreciate and i'm sure i'll love the book and want to keep it. that means i've first read something by that author i got at the library, or used for 1€ (i can't even count how many ancient paperbacks i have which are still marked with a price of 5 francs in pencil inside the cover, not to mention the ones i've given away as i replace them with ebooks), or that a friend lent me. i certainly can't and won't buy *all* of my books new. conversely, if i couldn't buy some books used, there are plenty of books that i *have* bought new that i would never have bought at all.

[Greg Anos]

Hemingway was quoted as saying "Either you do something new, or you're trying to beat dead men at their own game." The curent publishers have reached the "beating dead men at their own game" stage, and apparently failing abjectly...

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Hemingway was quoted as saying "Either you do something new, or you're trying to beat dead men at their own game." The curent publishers have reached the "beating dead men at their own game" stage, and apparently failing abjectly...

Not badly put.

Or, to use my favorite "castle" analogy: The publishers have remained in the castle, idly discussing plans to shore up the walls as they start to crumble, but afraid or unwilling to actually get started. Now, the walls are falling completely down, and they are scrambling in a panic to enact plans that would have been so much easier to execute if they'd started earlier. And they'll soon find that many of the walls are too far gone to be repaired.

That means the castle will be forced into a major rebuild, or else be an unworkable shambles if it is jury-rigged back together. If the job is done properly, the new castle will barely be recognizable from the old. In the process, there will be a significant shuffling of those on the outside, and those on the inside.

[Liviu_5]

Originally Posted by HarryT

You can't afford to spend $10 on an eBook, but you can afford a computer???

It's a matter of resource distribution - as others mentioned it is not about *one* book and a computer, but a stream of books and a computer.

Why spend 16$ for a new (discounted) hc at Amazon, when you can spend the same money for 4 used hc's at same Amazon and read the new one from the library?

I think it is pretty well accepted that the book business - at least on the *for pleasure, not work* side - is driven by a relatively small percent (10-20) of heavy book buyers, rather than the casual buyer.

The casual buyer may drive the *high profit* bestsellers, though usually those are the "breakthrough unknowns" rather than the big-advance authors, but the backbone of the current model is the heavy book buyer and this is why the NYT article above is persuasive for me to a large extent, if the trend it perceives of the heavy book buyer shifting more resources to used books is valid

And one rational and workable response is inexpensive ebooks at least for the backlist.

[lilac_jive]

I read recently that the whole publishing industry is set to crash.

I am sure I can think of some way to profit from this. I need to study publishing models and improve upon it.

Step 1: ???
Step 2: Profit!

[Phogg]

Originally Posted by Liviu_5

It's a matter of resource distribution - as others mentioned it is not about *one* book and a computer, but a stream of books and a computer.

Why spend 16$ for a new (discounted) hc at Amazon, when you can spend the same money for 4 used hc's at same Amazon and read the new one from the library?

I think it is pretty well accepted that the book business - at least on the *for pleasure, not work* side - is driven by a relatively small percent (10-20) of heavy book buyers, rather than the casual buyer.

The casual buyer may drive the *high profit* bestsellers, though usually those are the "breakthrough unknowns" rather than the big-advance authors, but the backbone of the current model is the heavy book buyer and this is why the NYT article above is persuasive for me to a large extent, if the trend it perceives of the heavy book buyer shifting more resources to used books is valid

And one rational and workable response is inexpensive ebooks at least for the backlist.

I submit to you that heavy readers have always switched more heavily to used books as they got older. The writings of the American founding fathers reference exchanging books. I think that as people age they find that having things be new is less important than it seemed in their youth.

I don't believe that this is in any way new, excepting that it is much faster to find a specific book now. In 1987 I had a used book store in Stillwater, Oklahoma try to find me a copy of Robert Service's Ploughman of the Moon. It took them nearly three years. I just hit google shopping search for the title and six popped uo on the first page. Back in 1987, I bought other books while waiting, today I get what I want withing a week.

[bill_mchale]

I think all of this shows that all previous business models for information (Whether it be for books, music, video, etc.) are essentially broken by the internet.

In the end, ebooks might be the salvation of the publishing industry, but not unless the publishing industry adapts itself to the realities of the new world as opposed to trying to adapt the new world to its old business model.

Ebooks, pretty much by definition, can't be legally resold, but when their costs rival paper books, they don't give many readers a compelling reason to switch to e-books. Likewise, they give incentive to those who feel justified in pirating the books.

My personal belief is that publishers and authors should develop a model that makes e-books inexpensive. I would be willing to bet that if most e-book readers could get legitimate books for $2-$3 a copy, that they would be happy to buy them. Publishers need to stop worrying so much about intellectual property lawyers (who probably collectively make up the largest part of the salaries at most publishing houses), look at the cost savings that come from not having printing or distribution costs (not to mention those pesky costs of unsold books).

Another thought is developing a subscription model; get users to pay a fee of say $10-20 a month. That fee would then allow the user to download say 3-6 books a month (maybe you could charge 2 books for new books?). This, I think would have tremendous advantages for the publishers since they would have a steady revenue stream.

Another thought is that perhaps the traditional publisher is no longer needed. The one aspect of the publisher that is still truly essential (imho) is the editing of the book. Perhaps editors should work on contract (agreeing to a fee to edit a book, or even working for a share of the profits. Meanwhile the books themselves will be sold by the retailer who has no reason not to carry every book they can.

--
Bill

[Shaggy]

Good thing DRM removes the right of first sale.

Anybody think that's a coincidence?

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

Good thing DRM removes the right of first sale.

Anybody think that's a coincidence?

Of course not. That's the publishers trying to protect their interests, in the same way that other digital media producers (music, movies) are acting to protect theirs. Hard to blame them, even if in practice it's a pretty ham-handed way of doing it.

Yes, if we adopt e-books wholeheartedly, the used book industry will be hit a heavy blow... UNLESS someone comes up with a way to tie e-book content to a non-reproducible code or physical media, allowing it to be physically traded without leaving copies behind.

But think about this: Publishers (or, at least, the article's author) say used bookstores are killing them; and used bookstores say that e-books will kill them. Who's zoomin' who?

[Liviu_5]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

Good thing DRM removes the right of first sale.

Anybody think that's a coincidence?

I do not think that drm has anything to do with reselling e-books - anyone tried to resell Baen ebooks?

E-books as electronic content are generally assumed to be not resalable and drm would be the only way to actually allow resales as "license transfer", though I doubt publishers would do that.

However as long as I get inexpensive drm-free/convertible ebooks that I can share freely with family and close friends, the way I do regular print books now, I am willing to give up the right of reselling them.

Regarding the impact of ebooks on used books - I disagree with the above assertion that ebooks will kill of the used book market; if the new print book market is there, so it will the used book market - only if ebooks *displace* print books in general, the used book market will get hit, but then all publishing would change considerably.

[Phogg]

I am not sure how to insert this properly into this thread, but it is not an unrelated consideration regarding value.

Books are like gasses. They expand to fill all of the available space.

The desire to keep more books than I have room for is a large part of what has driven me to ebooks. As we have gotten older and the kids moved out and so on, we have moved into a much smaller, and easier to clean/cheaper to heat residence. All those books took up a lot of space and many entire sections have had to be sold off in order to make the changes we wanted to make. On the other hand we still have a lot more belongings than all those years I spent living out of a sea bag and an alice pack.

We are down to five large-ish book cases. Entire sections and categories are nearly gone.

Yes there is not much resale for an ebook. On the other hand if you back them up (say on SD chips in a safety deposit box at the bank - together with all your family pictures) then you will never lose them, and you will never, ever have to give up your beloved books because there isn't room for them.

I find it a net gain.

C'est la vie.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by Liviu_5

I do not think that drm has anything to do with reselling e-books - anyone tried to resell Baen ebooks?

You can try if you want to though. You can also give them away to a friend or family member if you delete your copy... etc. DRM doesn't allow any of that, but that's the real intent behind DRM regardless of cries of "protecting the authors".

DRM isn't about copy protection, it's about artificially restricting the user's rights. This article just further illustrates why restriction of those rights isn't an accident.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by Phogg

Yes there is not much resale for an ebook. On the other hand if you back them up (say on SD chips in a safety deposit box at the bank - together with all your family pictures) then you will never lose them, and you will never, ever have to give up your beloved books because there isn't room for them.

Also backup the device or application that you use to read them. The SD chip of ebooks won't do you any good if you also lose the device that can unlock the DRM on them. Alternatively, strip off the DRM before you back them up.

[Phogg]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

Also backup the device or application that you use to read them. The SD chip of ebooks won't do you any good if you also lose the device that can unlock the DRM on them. Alternatively, strip off the DRM before you back them up.

So far I have been getting books without DRM.