MOBI support for reflowable files ending on June 28, 2021 - Page 2

Hitch · 03-19-2021, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhowell

I suspect that practically no one publishes using a KPF file produced using the Kindle Previewer. There is no advantage to doing that instead of the EPUB or DOCX source document, except possibly in the case Hitch mentions where she wants to be sure that the file destined for Amazon gets used.

Yes, but if we give them KPF, then they can't dl a preview mobi and OMG, do I get to hear that loud and clear, too. It's a no-win.

Quote:

I don't recall having access to a book published using a Previewer KPF. It would be informative if we could be sure that it was actually published that way.

It would be informative if we had both. Right? I mean...if there were some miracle by which we could double-publish a book, one in MOBI or ePUB, one in KPF....(sigh). As if that would ever happen.

Hitch

JSWolf · 03-19-2021, 10:21 AM

If Mobi was to go away, then publishing at Amazon could be so much easier.

jhowell · 03-19-2021, 10:21 AM

Somewhat related to the topic of this thread is a change in the recent Kindle firmware release (5.13.5). This makes the "Publisher Font" option only available in books in KF8 (azw3) format when the book has the internal metadata field EXTH 528 (OverrideKindleFonts) set to "true". Books converted using kindlegen or the Kindle Previewer will have this metadata set and will work properly.

However books that were converted using calibre (and possibly other third party tools) lack this metadata and will no longer have Publisher Fonts available in devices using the new Kindle firmware.

This change will mostly affect those who sell Kindle books outside of Amazon's ecosystem and Kindle users who sideload books since they are more likely to make use of non-Amazon tools.

I am not sure whether this change was intentional or a bug. It might be an early indicator of Amazon's desire to reduce the creation of Kindle books outside of their control.

Hitch · 03-19-2021, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhowell

Somewhat related to the topic of this thread is a change in the recent Kindle firmware release (5.13.5). This makes the "Publisher Font" option only available in books in KF8 (azw3) format when the book has the internal metadata field EXTH 528 (OverrideKindleFonts) set to "true". Books converted using kindlegen or the Kindle Previewer will have this metadata set and will work properly.

However books that were converted using calibre (and possibly other third party tools) lack this metadata and will no longer have Publisher Fonts available in devices using the new Kindle firmware.

This change will mostly affect those who sell Kindle books outside of Amazon's ecosystem and Kindle users who sideload books since they are more likely to make use of non-Amazon tools.

I am not sure whether this change was intentional or a bug. It might be an early indicator of Amazon's desire to reduce the creation of Kindle books outside of their control.

YUP, I saw this coming....

I'm reasonably certain it's deliberate.

Hitch

JSWolf · 03-19-2021, 10:44 AM

How easy would it be to modify Calibre to set EXTH 528 to true on conversion or save from the editor?

Also, with EXTH 528 not set to true, can side loaded fonts still be used?

Quoth · 03-19-2021, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

If Mobi was to go away, then publishing at Amazon could be so much easier.

If Amazon supported epub on their devices and didn't use proprietary formats at all, then it would be better. But Mobi as such makes no difference to publishing at Amazon. Recommended upload for years to KDP has been epub 1st, docx 2nd and not to use mobi at all.

I've an open mind if disabling Publisher fonts on 3rd party content is a bug or deliberate. Anyone rich enough could sue them for NOW crippling Kindles to content not from Amazon. Pay TV Satellite box makers got forbidden in EU to block FTA content not from the box supplier. They might be allowed do this deliberately in some countries. Other places might take a dim view of such anti-consumer behaviour.

jhowell · 03-19-2021, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

How easy would it be to modify Calibre to set EXTH 528 to true on conversion or save from the editor?

It should only be set if fonts are present in the book. I don't know how difficult a change it would be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Also, with EXTH 528 not set to true, can side loaded fonts still be used?

That metadata only enables the "Publisher Font" choice in the font menu. It does not affect other font choices.

jhowell · 03-19-2021, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quoth

I've an open mind if disabling Publisher fonts on 3rd party content is a bug or deliberate. Anyone rich enough could sue them for NOW crippling Kindles to content not from Amazon.

It is only a problem because third party software does not replicate the file format as produced by the tools made freely available by Amazon.

odamizu · 03-19-2021, 03:10 PM

I'm getting confused. Who exactly uses KDP (i.e., who does this this new no-more-mobi policy affect)? Is it primarily independent self-published individual authors? Small publishing houses? Or do all books, even from big publishing houses, go through KDP?

And if KDP isn't used by everyone to get Kindle books to Amazon, what is the alternative that is used instead?

(When this discussion began I thought all new Kindle books would be affected, but now I'm thinking I don't understand what KDP is

)

Thank you for any enlightenment.

j.p.s · 03-19-2021, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by odamizu

And if KDP isn't used by everyone to get Kindle books to Amazon, what is the alternative that is used instead?

EPUB or docx.

Hitch · 03-19-2021, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quoth

If Amazon supported epub on their devices and didn't use proprietary formats at all, then it would be better. But Mobi as such makes no difference to publishing at Amazon. Recommended upload for years to KDP has been epub 1st, docx 2nd and not to use mobi at all.

I've an open mind if disabling Publisher fonts on 3rd party content is a bug or deliberate. Anyone rich enough could sue them for NOW crippling Kindles to content not from Amazon. Pay TV Satellite box makers got forbidden in EU to block FTA content not from the box supplier. They might be allowed do this deliberately in some countries. Other places might take a dim view of such anti-consumer behaviour.

Oh Bollocks. I love ya, but get real. "Crippling" them how? Amazon has never guaranteed that any embedded fonts would work. And they've never said "oh, hear ye, hear ye, these eInks are tablets and you can do whatever you want with them."

What, so Suzie can't see the headings in Trajan Pro, and is "stuck" with Baskerville, instead? I'll bet you Amazon can make a factual use case that 98% of its customers don't use Publisher Fonts any-damned-way. So....

For that matter, you can't put a MOBI into iBooks. You think anybody is going to sue iBooks, for "crippling" the app to not accept content from other vendors?

Nyah. It's not the same thing as blocking FTA content. It's just saying that their own content has more possible features. HUUUGE difference and they could also argue that the MILLIONS of Word-built ebooks don't have publisher fonts, either.

Sorry, old buddy mine, but I don't think that argument even has big toes, never mind legs.

Hitch

odamizu · 03-19-2021, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by odamizu

I'm getting confused. Who exactly uses KDP (i.e., who does this this new no-more-mobi policy affect)? Is it primarily independent self-published individual authors? Small publishing houses? Or do all books, even from big publishing houses, go through KDP?

And if KDP isn't used by everyone to get Kindle books to Amazon, what is the alternative that is used instead?

(When this discussion began I thought all new Kindle books would be affected, but now I'm thinking I don't understand what KDP is

)

Thank you for any enlightenment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by j.p.s

EPUB or docx.

No, I'm not talking about the KPF format (to which EPUB and DOCX are alternatives). I'm talking about KDP (Kindle Direct Publishing platform) which will no longer accept MOBI as of June 28.

Do all publishers upload to Kindle Direct Publishing platform to distribute books to Amazon? or is it primarily independent self-published individual authors?

And if KDP isn't used by everyone, what is the alternative method/platform that is used instead?

Tex2002ans · 03-19-2021, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by odamizu

Do all publishers upload to Kindle Direct Publishing platform to distribute books to Amazon? or is it primarily independent self-published individual authors?

And if KDP isn't used by everyone, what is the alternative method/platform that is used instead?

Everybody uses KDP besides some larger publishers. If they have a deal with Amazon, they're able to access FTP uploads (directly uploading the files to Amazon's servers).

FTP allows them to upload ebooks with audio/video + do more complicated things (magazine subscriptions, Kindle in Motion, ONIX, etc.).

Hitch has also mentioned this many times over the years. For example:

2014: "embed video in Kindle/mobi?"

2019: "(sigh), Kindle/KPF format Blues..." (even see my Post #82).

odamizu · 03-20-2021, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex2002ans

Everybody uses KDP besides some larger publishers.

Thank you.

So if I'm understanding correctly from the various posts in this thread ...

Most everybody uses KDP to get their books on Amazon, except some big publishers who have access to direct uploads via FTP
Most everybody uploads EPUB or DOCX to KDP (and I'm guessing big publishers upload EPUB as I can't imagine them uploading Word docs)
Amazon will convert both EPUB and DOCX into KF7, KF8 and KFX
If a publisher uploads KPF created using Kindle Create, Amazon will likely (definitely?) convert it only to KF7 and KFX, no more KF8
It's yet unknown whether Amazon will convert KPF created using Kindle Previewer into KF7, KF8 and KFX or only KF7 and KFX
We don't think Amazon is phasing out KF8???

Does that all sound about right?

jhowell · 03-20-2021, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by odamizu

Does that all sound about right?

Seems correct to me.

03-19-2021, 10:21 AM	#18
jhowell Grand Sorcerer Posts: 7,012 Karma: 89771379 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Charlottesville, VA Device: Kindles	Somewhat related to the topic of this thread is a change in the recent Kindle firmware release (5.13.5). This makes the "Publisher Font" option only available in books in KF8 (azw3) format when the book has the internal metadata field EXTH 528 (OverrideKindleFonts) set to "true". Books converted using kindlegen or the Kindle Previewer will have this metadata set and will work properly. However books that were converted using calibre (and possibly other third party tools) lack this metadata and will no longer have Publisher Fonts available in devices using the new Kindle firmware. This change will mostly affect those who sell Kindle books outside of Amazon's ecosystem and Kindle users who sideload books since they are more likely to make use of non-Amazon tools. I am not sure whether this change was intentional or a bug. It might be an early indicator of Amazon's desire to reduce the creation of Kindle books outside of their control. Last edited by jhowell; 03-19-2021 at 10:24 AM. Reason: typos

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03-19-2021, 10:21 AM	#17
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 78,973 Karma: 144284074 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	If Mobi was to go away, then publishing at Amazon could be so much easier.

03-19-2021, 10:44 AM	#20
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 78,973 Karma: 144284074 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	How easy would it be to modify Calibre to set EXTH 528 to true on conversion or save from the editor? Also, with EXTH 528 not set to true, can side loaded fonts still be used?

03-19-2021, 03:10 PM	#24
odamizu just an egg Posts: 1,789 Karma: 6758980 Join Date: Mar 2015 Device: Kindle, iOS	I'm getting confused. Who exactly uses KDP (i.e., who does this this new no-more-mobi policy affect)? Is it primarily independent self-published individual authors? Small publishing houses? Or do all books, even from big publishing houses, go through KDP? And if KDP isn't used by everyone to get Kindle books to Amazon, what is the alternative that is used instead? (When this discussion began I thought all new Kindle books would be affected, but now I'm thinking I don't understand what KDP is ) Thank you for any enlightenment.

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