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[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by fbrzvnrnd

I don't wanna go out topic but I think there are multiple problems here: Apple, you said. But I add Amazon for his "static" kindle format, the publishers fear to invest money in a digital format they really do not believe in, the DRM that freeze the 3rd parts hardware and software producers, IDPF idea to force a ebook format that *must* be a copy of a traditional book... and counting.

DRM is not the problem. IDPF is not forcing eBooks to mimic pBooks. I agree that Amazon is not helping by forcing Mobi to still be viable when it's obsolete and needs to go. KFX is a mess and that needs to go as well.

[fbrzvnrnd]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

DRM is not the problem. IDPF is not forcing eBooks to mimic pBooks.

DRM is a problem because I cannot wrote a epub "killer appication" when every hardware/device uses a different wat to handle DRM. And IDPF IMHO forces when, for example, disable connection between ebook and internet or when not allows to change the DOM while reading.

[DiapDealer]

Whether or not EPUB is still being developed has absolutely no bearing on the topic at hand. With spec or without, proprietary nonsense (and the downright ignoring of spec) has always meant that book designers must jump through hoops to make things work on multiple platforms. That won't change now that the EPUB specification is considered "nearly complete". DRM also has no bearing on the fact that a scattershot approach to the wide publication of similarly rendering content has always been--and will always be--necessary.

EPUB specifications were largely ignored by EPUB vendors and rendering devices/applications (even open ones) when the IDPF still existed as an independent organization, and they will continue to be largely ignored after. Their continued existence was never going to usher in any golden age of ebook publishing prosperity (nor simplicity).

[KevinH]

That is not the idpf. Under epub3, you are allowed remote resources (ie for large media files) and javascript can be used to modify the DOM. The problem is the large number of broken and outdated reading devices that the manufacturers are not fixing by updating the firmware on to the current standard.

So ebook devs have learned to target the lowest common denominator instead of the epub3 standard meaning most of its "features" go unused.

[Quoth]

if you need epub3 you either need a PDF or an App. Only epub2 is assured of working on all epub apps and ereaders and is also still the best format to upload to Amazon KDP.

While it's technically possible to have text at the bottom of a page, you are better not trying to duplicate the exact appearance of paper books.
Avoid
Drop caps or images with text flowing round them
Clever formatting to have text at the bottom of a page.
Colour
Links without underlines
Underlines that are not links (on typewriters it meant set this in bold)
Oblique text rather than using an Italic font.
SMALL CAPS. Simply having a smaller font looks poor, though works sometimes.
Animation, transparency, video, audio or interactive. Pretend it's paper. Put a link and a QR code to the media on the Web or in an App.

Other issues.
If the book is for a Western Latin/Roman font audience then avoid Cyrillic, full Greek (there is limited support), Arabic, Hebrew, any Asian font, emojis, vertical text or right to left text. Those are all possible, but on a subset of eink models, often for a particular market and also app etc for those markets. Curiously Icelandic and Polish characters seem to work on quite old Kindles, but not the full modern Greek alphabet. Embedding an image of an unsupported word works really badly. There are transliteration rules for Russian Cyrillic and Chinese (pinyan). Hebrew and Arabic are commonly transliterated to English even on supermarket products.

Check on a variety of old ereaders if in doubt.

Update of devices:
Many can't be due to lack of RAM. Or the people that wrote it are gone. Also no assurance that users will update.

[fbrzvnrnd]

Originally Posted by KevinH

That is not the idpf. Under epub3, you are allowed remote resources (ie for large media files) and javascript can be used to modify the DOM. The problem is the large number of broken and outdated reading devices that the manufacturers are not fixing by updating the firmware on to the current standard.

So ebook devs have learned to target the lowest common denominator instead of the epub3 standard meaning most of its "features" go unused.

No, you can not have remote text, for example, only audio, video and font resources. And no, you can not change the DOM with javascript, if you want to follow the idpf specification ("A container-constrained script MUST NOT contain instructions for modifying the DOM of the parent Content Document or other contents in the EPUB Publication, and MUST NOT contain instructions for manipulating the size of its containing rectangle").

[KevinH]

I regularly use javascript to add nodes for links to footnotes and etc and that does modify its own dom. So I am not sure what they mean by "DOM of the parent Content Document" here but modifying the dom of an xhtml page is possible.

And I did say MEDIA files (ie audio and video) and not Text.

[KevinH]

And according to the spec, Container-Constrained are for javascripts that are in iframe elements. Using regular javascript stored in the header (so called spine-level level) of an xhtml file that is listed in the spine can and does change the DOM. (with some minor exceptions).

The iframe box once laid out can not change size. This is not a problem for reflowable documents with javascripts stored in the header.

[fbrzvnrnd]

Originally Posted by KevinH

This is not a problem for reflowable documents with javascripts stored in the header.

Thank you for the answer, I did not notice the iframe reference. But there are too many problems when you change the DOM anyway, first of all all the EPUB3 readers I tried do not re-paginate the opened "chapter" when you change the DOM. So, if a 3 pages chapter became a 4 pages chapter after interaction with the user (modifing the DOM), the 4 page falls in the nowhere: turning the page 3 I do not read the page 4, but the page 1 of the next chapter.

[fbrzvnrnd]

Originally Posted by KevinH

And I did say MEDIA files (ie audio and video) and not Text.

You said media, yes, not I. I'd like to have EPUB with static text and updated news about facts that are changing while the user is reading the book, but this is impossibile now (TBH I have done this in ePub2, but with a trick that was working only in few reader app).

[KevinH]

But you should be able to pop up a window in javascript to display
what addition info you want (just like a pop up footnote). And what about using javascript to add an "aside" or footnote element, that might work.

I think you are allowed to have a remote image as a remote resource and if so you can build an svg image of text on your server with up-to-date info that a current epub could display since it would be grabbed during initial layout. That might be worth trying.

Originally Posted by fbrzvnrnd

Thank you for the answer, I did not notice the iframe reference. But there are too many problems when you change the DOM anyway, first of all all the EPUB3 readers I tried do not re-paginate the opened "chapter" when you change the DOM. So, if a 3 pages chapter became a 4 pages chapter after interaction with the user (modifing the DOM), the 4 page falls in the nowhere: turning the page 3 I do not read the page 4, but the page 1 of the next chapter.

[Doitsu]

Originally Posted by fbrzvnrnd

You said media, yes, not I. I'd like to have EPUB with static text and updated news about facts that are changing while the user is reading the book, but this is impossibile now (TBH I have done this in ePub2, but with a trick that was working only in few reader app).

I only have rudimentary JavaScript skills, but I had no problems hiding/unhiding text with JavaScript. For a proof-of-concept epub see the Local storage test chapter of this simple epub3 book.

For a more advanced example, see this epub3 demo by French studio Walrus:

[fbrzvnrnd]

Originally Posted by Doitsu

I only have rudimentary JavaScript skills, but I had no problems hiding/unhiding text with JavaScript. For a proof-of-concept epub see the Local storage test chapter of this simple epub3 book.

Because you are hiding small piece of text that do not impact the number of "page" of the ebook

[fbrzvnrnd]

Originally Posted by KevinH

But you should be able to pop up a window in javascript to display
what addition info you want (just like a pop up footnote). And what about using javascript to add an "aside" or footnote element, that might work.

yes, but it is a different thing. I was working with interactive fiction in ebooks, or school books that "expand" or "compress" information following the student needs. This is a more radical vision of the book and I can not do this now if the ebook reader do not re-paginate the chapter when I change the DOM. Pop up is a nice idea, but for smaller part of text. BTW what you use for pop-up?

Originally Posted by KevinH

I think you are allowed to have a remote image as a remote resource and if so you can build an svg image of text on your server with up-to-date info that a current epub could display since it would be grabbed during initial layout. That might be worth trying.

Nice idea, I have to try it. Thank you for the suggestion.


f.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Doitsu

I only have rudimentary JavaScript skills, but I had no problems hiding/unhiding text with JavaScript. For a proof-of-concept epub see the Local storage test chapter of this simple epub3 book.

For a more advanced example, see this epub3 demo by French studio Walrus:

(snipped the video)

This is a take-off of the infamous "Immersedition" that kinda lived up to its name and promptly immersed itself (sank like a stone). Y'all remember that? About 7-8 years ago? What was that author's name? I remember the twitter tagline "reinventing storytelling." Oh, right, Amanda Havard. Died on the vine. http://amandahavard.com/immersedition

The three books that were supposed to be in that story's universe are out of print and you can read them for free on Wattpad. Man, I can't even fathom how much of a bath she took on that.

Hitch