Fan Fiction as eBooks

[Kirok]

Originally Posted by Amalthia

Last time I checked legally speaking fan fiction is a transformative work and protected under fair use?

Hi Amalthia! Saw your eBook archive - Damn! I can't say I'm the first now!

As suggested I started a thread on the copyright aspects of fanfic in eBooks in the Lounge. I'd be interested in finding out more about fanfic as a "transformative work" - got a source? One interesting concept I saw was that fan productions can be described as unauthorised derivative works - it doesn't change their legal status but it gives you a way of relating them to the originals

Cheers

K

[Amalthia]

Originally Posted by Kirok

I'll explain my project first and then I'd like some general advise on my course of action.

Here's the issues that i can see and i'd appreciate your input on them ...[list][*]When I say a "Print on Demand" ready pdf, the main reason is because full-bleed graphics look better online as well as on paper. if a reader wants to take this file to a "Print On Demand" printer and get him to make up a hard-bound or paperback copy of it then he (the printer) is simply performing a service for the customer by processing the file given to him.

Based on what you've written here I'm getting the impression you're talking about ebook formatted fan fiction online? I would highly recommend steering clear of PDF and instead look into EPUB which has more potential as a universal format for all ebook devices and pda's.

[*]ethically I can see no difference between us creating, hosting and making available for free an eBook copy of a fan fiction and a fan film, an audio drama or any other form of fan production - the only difference is in the media. As long as we make it abundantly clear that the authors and producers make no claim to the intellectual property of Star Trek, there is a clear precedent that we can follow.

Um, I think the main area of concern I have, is author permissions? Last time I checked fan fiction is considered a form of fair use.

[*]Technically, I've said Mobipocket because it's commonly used, I've used it and been happy with it myself and it's got a wide set of handy options including the RSS aggregator which I reckon would make a good message board reader once I iron out a bug (see seperate thread).[*]Whilst both eReader and Stanza can give us access to iPhone (I'm betting on eBooks booming with them) I like the idea of making our fan fiction available in ePub which is, correct me if I'm wrong, a more 'open source' platform.

I think ePub has a lot of potential and I'd say if you were going to use a format that can only be read on select devices I personally prefer LRF at least there is a program Calibre that can convert html documents into LRF and it looks nice.

[Amalthia]

Originally Posted by Kirok

Hi Amalthia! Saw your eBook archive - Damn! I can't say I'm the first now!

As suggested I started a thread on the copyright aspects of fanfic in eBooks in the Lounge. I'd be interested in finding out more about fanfic as a "transformative work" - got a source? One interesting concept I saw was that fan productions can be described as unauthorised derivative works - it doesn't change their legal status but it gives you a way of relating them to the originals

Cheers

K

I recommend checking out this site http://transformativeworks.org/ it goes into more detail about fan works and copyright.

And yeah, I started the ebook fan fiction archive back in May so far it's going okay. The hard part is getting permissions and converting the stories to RTF. (RTF is the one universal format that anyone can download and upload to their file converter of choice) The site has a good mix of Ipod, Kindle, Cybook, Ebookwise, and Sony PRS users.

[Amalthia]

P.S. I think when it comes to fan fiction and community surrounding it I probably know a lot for a user on this forum since I've been in fandom since 1996 and run multiple archives and have been in multiple fandoms.

So I don't mind answering questions about fan fiction and stuff.

[Kirok]

Originally Posted by Amalthia

Based on what you've written here I'm getting the impression you're talking about ebook formatted fan fiction online? I would highly recommend steering clear of PDF and instead look into EPUB which has more potential as a universal format for all ebook devices and pda's.

I'm looking at large works (novella+) that you couldn't go through in one sitting online. These are all downloadable files that can be read off-line ...
pdf - The starter level: everyone has adobe acrobat! For the unadventurous who don't want to instal an eBook reader, can be read on a desktop or a laptop - I understand that there are new programs that can view pdf on handhelds but eBooks on handhelds do the job better.
ISSUU / Scribd - I think of these as online pdf browsers (although Scribd can do MUCH more) This is a great place to catch a reader's interest so that they'll download the full book (I uploaded a short story of mine as a test) but
Mobipocket & ePub - Downloadable, archivable, easily readable offline on a wide range of hardware

Originally Posted by Amalthia

Um, I think the main area of concern I have, is author permissions? Last time I checked fan fiction is considered a form of fair use.

I advertised for submissions (and went begging as well to writers I know) so nothing happens without the go from them. The editors creating the books are working with the authors to format it in a way that is sympathetic to their wishes within reason: if they want pink font on a black background it ain't gonna happen!

Originally Posted by Amalthia

I think ePub has a lot of potential and I'd say if you were going to use a format that can only be read on select devices I personally prefer LRF at least there is a program Calibre that can convert html documents into LRF and it looks nice.

Book Designer, Calibre and Feedbooks seem to be my main options right now - what makes LRF?

K

[Amalthia]

Originally Posted by Kirok

I'm looking at large works (novella+) that you couldn't go through in one sitting online. These are all downloadable files that can be read off-line ...

I have a list of those, however not in Star Trek fandom and the one Voyager story that's over 400k words is slash.

pdf - The starter level: everyone has adobe acrobat! For the unadventurous who don't want to instal an eBook reader, can be read on a desktop or a laptop - I understand that there are new programs that can view pdf on handhelds but eBooks on handhelds do the job better.

I agree that PDF is a good format for online reading (assuming browser does not crash which is a problem I have from time to time with PDF files online) but I completely disagree about reading on e-ink devices never minding the fact that all the Kindle users are completely cut off from reading the PDF file on their device. Though they can email the story to amazon and they'll convert it for them...but there is no reassurance that the formatting of the images will be maintained. Also two sets of PDF files would have to be created and the formatting checked over again because once you re-size the PDF to 6 inch all the images shift too.

ISSUU / Scribd - I think of these as online pdf browsers (although Scribd can do MUCH more) This is a great place to catch a reader's interest so that they'll download the full book (I uploaded a short story of mine as a test)

I checked it out but maybe I'm doing something wrong because the zoom feature doesn't fit to screen and you have to use the hand to move the PDF up or down the screen? I'm kind of used to just using the scroll bar so that was kind of odd.

Mobipocket & ePub - Downloadable, archivable, easily readable offline on a wide range of hardware

Can't disagree with anything here. (though what's killing me still is that the Kindle does not support ePub.) I really want one format that can be read on every e-ink device on the market. (one that can retain formatting, images, and hyperlinks/Table of Contents)

Book Designer, Calibre and Feedbooks seem to be my main options right now - what makes LRF?

Book Designer and Calibre can both create LRF files. I prefer using Calibre though, however I know other members on this forum use Book Designer with great results.

Amalthia

p.s. sorry if I seem so negative about PDF. It's just I really don't like PDF for reading online let alone my e-ink device. So I'm rather biased against it to start off with. So far I've found for online reading HTML is the most pleasant experience (assuming no pink text and black background)

[Kirok]

Originally Posted by Amalthia

I agree that PDF is a good format for online reading (assuming browser does not crash which is a problem I have from time to time with PDF files online) but I completely disagree about reading on e-ink devices never minding the fact that all the Kindle users are completely cut off from reading the PDF file on their device. Though they can email the story to amazon and they'll convert it for them...but there is no reassurance that the formatting of the images will be maintained. Also two sets of PDF files would have to be created and the formatting checked over again because once you re-size the PDF to 6 inch all the images shift too.

In essence I agree - pdf on a handheld is more of a problem than anything. The pdf's are being provided for two groups...

• Those who want to print it out
• those who want to read it on a computer, either online (on the internet) or offline (downloaded).

It is NOT meant meant as a handheld download.

Originally Posted by Amalthia

I checked it out but maybe I'm doing something wrong because the zoom feature doesn't fit to screen and you have to use the hand to move the PDF up or down the screen? I'm kind of used to just using the scroll bar so that was kind of odd.

This is a common complaint. Really ISSUU looks pretty on a website or on their website and it catches the reader's eye but it is fiddly to read long tracts with. I think of it more as a "shop window" for browsers who, if they're interested, will download it to read on their acrobat or other pdf reader off-line.
Scribd is a much more traditional "window" style browser and it's value is it's international readership. These are more storage and distribution networks rather than serious reading platforms

Originally Posted by Amalthia

Can't disagree with anything here. (though what's killing me still is that the Kindle does not support ePub.) I really want one format that can be read on every e-ink device on the market. (one that can retain formatting, images, and hyperlinks/Table of Contents)

LOL! So say us all! As regards the Kindle, that's made by Amazon isn't it? I'm a little warie about giving more power to Amazon after their attempt to monopolise the Print On Demand industry

Originally Posted by Amalthia

Book Designer and Calibre can both create LRF files. I prefer using Calibre though, however I know other members on this forum use Book Designer with great results.

Amalthia

p.s. sorry if I seem so negative about PDF. It's just I really don't like PDF for reading online let alone my e-ink device. So I'm rather biased against it to start off with. So far I've found for online reading HTML is the most pleasant experience (assuming no pink text and black background)

No worries! Some people I talk to about eBooks are exactly the opposite and assume I'm talking about pdf which is the only online publishing they have experience of. I even experimented with the idea of the Blog Novel for a while but in the end gave up in favour of concentrating on pdf plus eBooks

K

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by Amalthia

And yeah, I started the ebook fan fiction archive back in May so far it's going okay. The hard part is getting permissions and converting the stories to RTF. (RTF is the one universal format that anyone can download and upload to their file converter of choice) The site has a good mix of Ipod, Kindle, Cybook, Ebookwise, and Sony PRS users.

We should talk (I think we met at Escapade); I know some fanfic authors release their works under Creative Commons and don't need to be asked--but they don't always have a prominent statement about that near their fanfic.

::Note to self: point out to the OTW people that the archive should have an easy link to copyright policies & a way to embed CC links in the story listings::

I suspect that, even if a definitive ruling came out in favor of fanfic's legality (i.e. Fox decides to sue Steven Brust for "My Own Kind of Freedom," and is squashed horribly, leading to a landmark ruling that use of copyrighted characters in a story is no different from use of their descriptions in a review), many online archives won't touch fanfic because of perceived quality issues and quantity-vs-interest problems--certainly Mobileread.com doesn't want to host all of ff.net in RTF format.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by Amalthia

p.s. sorry if I seem so negative about PDF. It's just I really don't like PDF for reading online let alone my e-ink device. So I'm rather biased against it to start off with. So far I've found for online reading HTML is the most pleasant experience (assuming no pink text and black background)

I adore PDFs... as stable, print-ready or single-purpose-view formats. I'm still not used to reading them on a screen. I've been converting to PDF for my new Sony PRS, but that's because Calibre confuses me (and seems to have problems with some pictures) and line breaks for poetry and such get all wonky with the RTFs, and PDFs I can control, and am comfortable adding bookmarks to.

I can make 3.5x4.8 (roughly) pdfs for my Reader. And letter-sized PDFs for print. And landscape-letter, 2-column, 15-pt text with 1/4" margins and keep-lines-together paragraphs for reading on screen. And so on. I do think it's silly to expect everyone to be content with a single format of PDF, and what works well for print is not the best layout for the screen.

[Amalthia]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

I adore PDFs... as stable, print-ready or single-purpose-view formats. I'm still not used to reading them on a screen. I've been converting to PDF for my new Sony PRS, but that's because Calibre confuses me (and seems to have problems with some pictures) and line breaks for poetry and such get all wonky with the RTFs, and PDFs I can control, and am comfortable adding bookmarks to.

I can make 3.5x4.8 (roughly) pdfs for my Reader. And letter-sized PDFs for print. And landscape-letter, 2-column, 15-pt text with 1/4" margins and keep-lines-together paragraphs for reading on screen. And so on. I do think it's silly to expect everyone to be content with a single format of PDF, and what works well for print is not the best layout for the screen.

I created a community for the ebook library and I've been trying to get some how-to guides written up and I have a Calibre guide with pictures. Not sure how much it would help but here is the link just in case. http://community.livejournal.com/fan...tml?style=mine

I think the big problem is RTF does not convert well in Calibre, I have to convert the RTF to HTML (if the file has images add the new HTML plus Images into a zip file, load into Calibre and then hit convert)

I also have some information on how I've been creating PDFs..but lately I've kind of given up on that format in favor of LRF. I had troubles with the footer margin it was always too big and I tried everything to get the margins like I have the LRF file margins but it just wasn't working.

[Amalthia]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

We should talk (I think we met at Escapade); I know some fanfic authors release their works under Creative Commons and don't need to be asked--but they don't always have a prominent statement about that near their fanfic.

I knew your name sounded familiar. And yeah, for the time being I'm trying to play it safe and ask even if the author's say go ahead and archive. Mostly because I'm format shifting their works.

::Note to self: point out to the OTW people that the archive should have an easy link to copyright policies & a way to embed CC links in the story listings::

I suspect that, even if a definitive ruling came out in favor of fanfic's legality (i.e. Fox decides to sue Steven Brust for "My Own Kind of Freedom," and is squashed horribly, leading to a landmark ruling that use of copyrighted characters in a story is no different from use of their descriptions in a review), many online archives won't touch fanfic because of perceived quality issues and quantity-vs-interest problems--certainly Mobileread.com doesn't want to host all of ff.net in RTF format.

Gosh I hope mobileread.com doesn't host all of ff.net. That would be truly scary.

[pagansoul]

I've been collecting Farscape fan fiction for years. I just copy/paste as rtf files and keep them on my computer. I never thought about putting them on my Kindle. You just gave me the idea. I guess it's time to look on the other Fan Fiction sites for more stories. I actually stopped when I first got my Kindle, I have so much to read I'll never catch up.