How do you proofread your work?

[Quoth]

Only for a madly complex series and multiple writers. It's pretty easy to install the SW that Wikipedia uses. Free as is PHP, MySQL and Apache, needed to run it. You can also install those on Windows, they come as standard on most Linux distributions.

I and others here have used "personal" Wikis for over 10 years. You won't like it. For one author, using Notepad++ or KATE (a multiple tab text editor) with a separate text file for each thing and a different "session" for each series or unrelated project will work better and far simpler to setup and use.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Only for a madly complex series and multiple writers. It's pretty easy to install the SW that Wikipedia uses. Free as is PHP, MySQL and Apache, needed to run it. You can also install those on Windows, they come as standard on most Linux distributions.

I and others here have used "personal" Wikis for over 10 years. You won't like it. For one author, using Notepad++ or KATE (a multiple tab text editor) with a separate text file for each thing and a different "session" for each series or unrelated project will work better and far simpler to setup and use.

I thought I'd add that you can, in effect, use either MS's One Note, or Evernote--either--as "personal wikis" effectively, by the simple expedient of linking the notes. It's incredibly simple in OneNote (which also can run in the cloud, being utterly portable), altho you mentioned a Mac, so that's probably not on.

I find using similar functionality in Evernote far, far less simple/intuitive.

Nonetheless, both can be used as personal wikis, effectively.

I freely admit, I don't understand why a wiki would work, as that's primarily for organizing data, which you've said you are already doing in Calibre, but, for the purposes of answering the question and your earlier comment about not knowing how Evernote or OneNote, et al, would assist you, (and your mention of the personal wiki), I did want to add that indeed, you can use Note taking apps a bit like a wiki and IMHO, it's easier.

I also admit, I'm just not sure what you're trying to do here. You've said that you have the data organized and that now you're trying to proofread, but not really PROOFREAD inasmuch as make sure you haven't missed something, which, as someone else said previously, isn't really proofing, it's fact editing and that's a whole other kettle of fish. I don't, really, see any way around the simple expedient of going over all your fact data a second time, from the final draft of the work to your sources. I can't really think of any software that will "check" that for you.

About the only thing that might have helped would have been something like OneNote, where you would make a separate folder for each discrete topic, and individual notes for sub-topics or areas beneath that and then linked the entire folder (or each note, whatever) to your work, and then used that, NOW, to work backward to ensure that you didn't miss anything. With something akin to Word+OneNote, that's relatively easy to do.

So, sorry...I don't have any great suggestions at this point. (FWIW, I've used a personal wiki and I don't see that being spectacularly helpful, for a variety of reasons.)

Hitch

[Quoth]

But a tabbed Text editor with sessions (Notepad++ and KATE are just two) is better than One Note and not proprietary. Just text. I used to use a Wiki and thhen changed to NotePad++ on Windows and then WINE, but KATE on Linux is the same thing. Both free. I don't know what thing like them are used on Mac. They are actually developed for Programmers, both to edit the programs (with smart syntax highlighting) and to track changes, objects, APIs, requirements, etc on a per project basis. So work very well as a window with a tab for each file beside the wordprocessor window. You can turn off autocompletion and brackets highlighting and identify the file as text. You can edit HTML, XML, CSS and most programming languages too.
So I only use my secret online Wiki for multiple author on the same series. You need a password to even connect to the website and an account in the Wiki.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Quoth

But a tabbed Text editor with sessions (Notepad++ and KATE are just two) is better than One Note and not proprietary. Just text. I used to use a Wiki and thhen changed to NotePad++ on Windows and then WINE, but KATE on Linux is the same thing. Both free. I don't know what thing like them are used on Mac. They are actually developed for Programmers, both to edit the programs (with smart syntax highlighting) and to track changes, objects, APIs, requirements, etc on a per project basis. So work very well as a window with a tab for each file beside the wordprocessor window. You can turn off autocompletion and brackets highlighting and identify the file as text. You can edit HTML, XML, CSS and most programming languages too.
So I only use my secret online Wiki for multiple author on the same series. You need a password to even connect to the website and an account in the Wiki.

Quoth:

I don't disagree that in some instances, a tabbed editor is "better." I love my NoteTAB Pro (not NotePAD); it's fantastic for many things and their "outline" option is the cat's pajamas (a bit like a private wiki, as it happens).

However, I gotta admit, for linking all over the place, everything from files, to URLs, to images online, etc., the two proprietaries in this instance are "easier." IMHO, of course, but...hey, different horses, different courses and in this case, different riders.

Hitch

[MarjaE]

I've got multiple projects, no idea how many files, hundreds of pages for each project, and no, Calibre is not much help with cross-referencing them.

I'm looking for something which helps me--

a. Cross-reference these

b. Keep track of which chapters need expansion, revision, more research, more references, etc.

c. Keep track of which files I'd like to export to a short version for readers, and which ones I'd hold back for personal use.

d. export them, of course.

It's hard to see what accessibility options different note-taking software has. But footnote support is important and isn't common in note-taking software.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by MarjaE

I've got multiple projects, no idea how many files, hundreds of pages for each project, and no, Calibre is not much help with cross-referencing them.

I'm looking for something which helps me--

a. Cross-reference these

b. Keep track of which chapters need expansion, revision, more research, more references, etc.

c. Keep track of which files I'd like to export to a short version for readers, and which ones I'd hold back for personal use.

d. export them, of course.

It's hard to see what accessibility options different note-taking software has. But footnote support is important and isn't common in note-taking software.

Marja:

As is not uncommon with your posts for ideas, suggestions, etc., I think that once again, you're seeking a unicorn, a Holy Grail that doesn't exist. I've done a lot of work, over the last 40 years, with extensive, huge files with thousands of linked sources, footnotes, endnotes, URLs, and all that and I have NEVER met a writing program that does all that.

I don't think that Scrivener would do everything you need. It could do a lot of it--it does have extensive footnoting capabilities. It would allow you to link content and add resources (files, images) to the folders that you create.

You could create notes on the clipboard entries to yourself, about what needs expansion and all that. So...that's an all-in-one solution and no, I don't know about accessibility but you could definitely ask the L&L guys about it--they are VERY accommodating.

Two other ideas:

Word+OneNote: would do all of this. It wouldn't even really be hard. Just link back and forth; do your writing and footnoting in Word; link OneNote sources to the footnotes and keep all (all!) your sources, images, files, webpages, etc. in OneNote. That's option 1.

There's an older, mostly abandoned program, LSBXE, (Liquid Story Binder) that I've always said was all flash; I said that people would buy it because it made them feel like a real writer, rather than doing all the flashy stuff that people think it does. But...for something like what you're talking about, it MIGHT really work. It works off interconnected file databases, with almost everything in RTF files and databases, so you MIGHT find it useful. When I was still (stupidly) trying to help the developer and users improve the product, I was part of maintaining a wiki on how to best use it, and that may still be around.

Of all the options that I know--and again, I know a crapload of them from years of real estate development documents and research, legal stuff and all that--I gotta say, something like either Word+OneNote, or Scrivener, is probably your best bet. I can't remember what you said about Scrivener, vis-a-vis your special needs, but if you CAN use it, it probably does more of what you want, in one place, than anything else. And it has that easy-to-use file browser, built-in, that would keep your resources handier.

So..I don't know if that helps, but if I were you, I would at least email L&L, the developers of Scrivener to see if they can address your accessibility needs, b/c if they can, that's seriously your best option.

Hitch

[MarjaE]

Thank you.

My only issues with Scrivener, so far were--

1. the price

2. the habit of saving on quitting

3. the orientation towards bundling everything together, when not everything would be Scrivener-readable.

-- It doesn't have the cursor issues I've encountered elsewhere.

It lists footnotes in a separately-scrolling sidebar, I don't know if there's a way to change that.

I can't find a fix to the save issue yet.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by MarjaE

Thank you.

My only issues with Scrivener, so far were--

1. the price

I honestly don't remember the price; I think it's around $45 or so, is that right? You're a Mac user, so you could get Scrivener 3, too, which sounds pretty nice.

2. the habit of saving on quitting

You mean you don't want auto-save, is that right? Yeah, that throws me on a lot of new Windows products, too, saving left/right/center when I don't really want them to.

3. the orientation towards bundling everything together, when not everything would be Scrivener-readable.

Well...as I said, I don't know how you can find something that WILL "keep everything together," but then not, too, at the same time. Something's going to have to give somewhere, Marja. It's that, or you need to kludge something together, like Word+OneNote.

-- It doesn't have the cursor issues I've encountered elsewhere.

Given what I've seen you say, over the years, that should be a biggie for you, I would think.

It lists footnotes in a separately-scrolling sidebar, I don't know if there's a way to change that.

I did a quick-n-dirty skim on footnoting in it and while it's NOT as simple/easy-peasy as Word, it appears to have some nice features. I'd read up on it, were I you. I do know that you CAN integrate Scrivener with citations managers such as EndNote, so, that might suit you too, for that. (Not footnoting, but...)

I can't find a fix to the save issue yet.

I do know that you CAN set the auto-save feature to a much, much longer interval, for the "no activity" save feature. That's not everything, but...it would help.

Hitch

[MarjaE]

Skrib also seems to lose the navigational data from *Office.

So it looks like my options include:

1. Continuing with NeoOffice, no change.

2. Splitting files in NeoOffice, organizing in Calibre, and writing in NeoOffice.

3. Splitting files in NeoOffice, organizing in Scrivener, and writing in Scrivener.

4. Splitting files in NeoOffice, organizing in Dokuwiki, and writing in DokuWiki, since apparently it has better footnote support than most personal wikis. It requires a special plugin with its own dependencies to import and convert.

I'd initially dismissed #2, but it's looking more appealing.

[Prestidigitweeze]

Professionally, I've been an editor for over a decade. I do still write fiction and music, but less often than I'd prefer.

I've always remembered W.H. Auden's advice: every writer should have a good gardener. He meant that the editor/proofreader in the writer's head should be good.

Metaphorically, though, I don't think of proofreading or editing as gardening. If I still wrote stanzas that needed trimming, perhaps I would.

I prefer to think of my internal proofreader as a text janitor whose task is to clean up after an incomprehensible idiot (i.e., me).

I tend to proofread myself with faux annoyance: "What mental jawbreakers did the imbecile inflict on readers this time?"

I've played that game of solitaire charades since high school and it always makes the task more amusing for me.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Prestidigitweeze

Professionally, I've been an editor for over a decade. I do still write fiction and music, but less often than I'd prefer.

I've always remembered W.H. Auden's advice: every writer should have a good gardener. He meant that the editor/proofreader in the writer's head should be good.

Metaphorically, though, I don't think of proofreading or editing as gardening. If I still wrote stanzas that needed trimming, perhaps I would.

I prefer to think of my internal proofreader as a text janitor whose task is to clean up after an incomprehensible idiot (i.e., me).

I tend to proofread myself with faux annoyance: "What mental jawbreakers did the imbecile inflict on readers this time?"

I've played that game of solitaire charades since high school and it always makes the task more amusing for me.

Well, as it's been 13 months or so, I'm honestly fascinated to find out if Marja went with Scrivener--or something else?

Given the blinking cursor issue, I did not see any viable alternative. All the rest--OneNote, EverNote, NotTabPro (doesn't come for mac, any-damned-way), Wikimedia's wiki, etc. *all* have blinking cursors.

The only thing that I think we discussed that didn't, was Scrivener. Just out of curiosity, I did book up LSBXE (Liquid Story Binder XE), which honestly, other than that, would have been amazeballs for Marja's needs, (due to its structure and how it works) but sure as hell--blinking cursor.

I've sometimes wondered if using something as simple as a DBMS, like MS's simple Access software, might not work best for her? Altho, again, not sure about the blinking cursor issue.

Hitch

[Prestidigitweeze]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Well, as it's been 13 months or so, I'm honestly fascinated to find out if Marja went with Scrivener--or something else?

Given the blinking cursor issue, I did not see any viable alternative. All the rest--OneNote, EverNote, NotTabPro (doesn't come for mac, any-damned-way), Wikimedia's wiki, etc. *all* have blinking cursors.

The only thing that I think we discussed that didn't, was Scrivener. Just out of curiosity, I did book up LSBXE (Liquid Story Binder XE), which honestly, other than that, would have been amazeballs for Marja's needs, (due to its structure and how it works) but sure as hell--blinking cursor.

I've sometimes wondered if using something as simple as a DBMS, like MS's simple Access software, might not work best for her? Altho, again, not sure about the blinking cursor issue.

Hitch

Your point in quoting me would seem to be that I posted an answer to the title of the thread that had nothing to do with content of the original post. Yes, I was aware of that, but perhaps your quoting me in a post that has nothing to do with my answer was your way of returning the favor.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Prestidigitweeze

Your point in quoting me would seem to be that I posted an answer to the title of the thread that had nothing to do with content of the original post. Yes, I was aware of that, but perhaps your quoting me in a post that has nothing to do with my answer was your way of returning the favor.

Uh...no?

I was simply following up. I am interested to know what she found and I was agreeing with you about editing. I should have made that more apparent. ;-)

Hitch

[MarjaE]

I stuck with NeoOffice, actually.

I stuck with Clearview to read on my computer. Since too many bookmarks can make it freeze or crash, I've started exporting the relevant pages to project-specific folders, and then removing the bookmarks.

I picked up a Likebook P10.

If I use it with Twomon, I can use it as a small auxiliary monitor, without as much glare and eye strain as the regular monitor. I mostly use it for email that way.

Otherwise, I can use it as a reader, without having to pre-process everything before I can find out if it is worth the pre-processing.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by MarjaE

I stuck with NeoOffice, actually.

I stuck with Clearview to read on my computer. Since too many bookmarks can make it freeze or crash, I've started exporting the relevant pages to project-specific folders, and then removing the bookmarks.

I picked up a Likebook P10.

If I use it with Twomon, I can use it as a small auxiliary monitor, without as much glare and eye strain as the regular monitor. I mostly use it for email that way.

Otherwise, I can use it as a reader, without having to pre-process everything before I can find out if it is worth the pre-processing.

I'm glad that you found something that doesn't blink at you!

How did you solve the fact-checking issue? The readers are one thing, but as I recall, your goal in this post/thread was that you wanted to find a way to review all of your footnotes/endnotes/attributions (and so on and so forth) to ensure you'd left nothing out, wasn't that right?

Did you simply bite the proverbial bullet and slog through them, first to last?

(I ask this because I do a ridiculous amount of cross-referenced items. I build what I think of as pyramids of canned elements--so, for example, I create a form. The form lives in GDrive. The document link gets converted, by me, to an auto-download GDrive link. Then I shorten that link with Bitly and from that point, the link is created in Phrase express.

From that point, PEX uses that specific phrase as inserted text into other PEX phrases and articles. So that if I have to change this, because GOD FORBID I update the form, or Amazon changes something, or or or, I only have to update it in a single place. The creation of all of these reliant documents is a giant PITA, but having once gone through a scenario in which I had to update over 100 handouts, canned emails, etc., I learnt my lesson. Thus, I sorta understand what you were seeking.)

Hitch