Star Wars Universe

[DrNefario]

The Star Wars Extended Universe was officially canon until Disney, which I always thought was a mistake. Secondary material like that can become a bit of a ball-and-chain. Disney made the right choice by distching it - you can't expect movie goers to know 30 years worth of events that happened since Return of the Jedi, you aren't going to be able to explain everyhing in the opening crawl, and the actors are all too old to pick up from there. I'm not necessarily happy with the way they took it, but I think they made the right call to ignore the extended universe.

I'm quite happy with a flexible reality where things are free to reinvent themselves and disregard inconvenient bits of the past. I think my favourite reboot strategy is where they acknowledge the past but aren't bound by it, like the start of the new Battlestar Galactica, or the bits in the first episode of Buffy that seem to be referring to the film but actually aren't, or the pick-and-choose attitude of Doctor Who.

[Pizza_Cant_Read]

I loved the expanded universe pre-Disney. I read dozens of books as a teen. I haven’t really been interested in the new movies and get details mixed up during recall. I know it is because I am resentful. But I realize it is nothing to dwell on and to be bitter about. I have bought some cheap Chinese merchandise, but it doesn’t matter all that much to me. The Mandalorian seems alright after the first couple episodes that I watched with a friend.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

While I am interested in what those who are really into the Star Wars books think, one of the series that I was thinking about was the Darkover series. MZB wasn't exactly the best when it came of keeping track of some of the things she said in previous books.

I've not read any of the books, but I went and read this on Wikipedia:

"I am simply not up to the kind of planning and long-range forethought that a “series” demands[,]" such as Robert A. Heinlein’s “Future History” series. She mentions a fellow novelist who has a grand scheme worked out for 2000 years into the future, and every book must fit into the scheme. She thinks that is "horrible."

Bradley says: "So these are the ground rules for the Darkover books, series or not; every one is complete in itself, and I do not assume that the reader has read, or will ever read, any other book in the series."

That seems sensible to me.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by rcentros

Star Wars ended for me with the third movie (the real third movie, not the renumbered (fake) third movie) when the ewoks showed up. My brain had already rebelled at the premise that every random character (in a galaxy of billions) were seemingly related.

For me, Star Wars is the six George Lucas-era movies. The only Star Wars movie I personally care for is the first one. That movie is a watershed in history.

But Star Wars changed when it was sold to Disney from an artistic endevor to a corporate franchise.

[leebase]

I like it when folks TRY to have a consistent universe. But...all of this is fiction, after all. As long as the current book I'm reading is consistent with itself and keeps MAJOR points consistent from what's gone before. I'm good.

I love sequels. I love book series over individual books in general. I love prequals. I love when an author hands the reigns of his book series to another he's hand picked and trained.

Are they ever as good as the original? I don't think that way. I think "is reading this new book/watching this new movie in a franchise I enjoy more likely to be entertaining than a brand new book/movie"?

T2 was vastly better than the original terminator. None of the follow on's were nearly as good. But so what? They were still good and better than what else I had to choose from at the time.

Aliens was WAY better than Alien. Again, none of the rest held up but were still decent movies.

Dune? The original book is had and shoulders better than any Frank wrote himself and those are better than the one's his son and Kevin Anderson wrote. But I enjoyed all 16 (or so) of those books.

Just don't change the gender, race of a super hero. That always bothers me. Come up with a new superhero if you don't like the original.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

So, my assumption is that the all the movies are still considered canon, though there are some fairly big inconsistencies in the movies once you get past the original trilogy.

Originally Posted by DrNefario

The Star Wars Extended Universe was officially canon until Disney...

Concerns about what is 'canon' are what bother me so much about continuity.

Frank Miller did a legendary Batman story called The Dark Knight Returns, imagining Batman old and broken in the future.

Then there were concerns about if it was canon. Who cares? The series stands on its own. I don't expect ever Batman story written after to be guided in a way that won't contradict The Dark Knight Returns.

Just enjoy the stories for what they are.

Secondary material like that can become a bit of a ball-and-chain. Disney made the right choice by distching it - you can't expect movie goers to know 30 years worth of events that happened since Return of the Jedi, you aren't going to be able to explain everyhing in the opening crawl...

I'm quite happy with a flexible reality where things are free to reinvent themselves and disregard inconvenient bits of the past.

Yes, I agree.

I think my favourite reboot strategy is where they acknowledge the past but aren't bound by it, like the start of the new Battlestar Galactica, or the bits in the first episode of Buffy that seem to be referring to the film but actually aren't, or the pick-and-choose attitude of Doctor Who.

Alan Moore was a master of that in comics (sorry to go back to comics, but that's the field I enjoy where continuity has the most impact).

He would take over an unpopular series and completely reinvent it. He didn't say the past events never happened, but he would recontextualize them. He did it with Captain Britain, Marvelman/Miricleman, Swamp Thing and a cheesy character called Supreme.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by leebase

Aliens was WAY better than Alien.

Sorry man. But here you are just wrong.

Aliens is G.I. Joe in space. It's a good movie. But better than Ridley Scott's original? Please...

Just don't change the gender, race of a super hero. That always bothers me. Come up with a new superhero if you don't like the original.

That doesn't bother me and it is nothing new. It's just become trendy to whine about it now.

What eventually happens is the original hero comes back and one of them assumes a new identity. James Rhodes was Iron Man, then became War Machine, Riri Williams became Ironheart Alan Scott, Hal Jordan, Guy Gardner, John Stewart, and Kyle Rayner have all been The Green Lantern. Jean-Paul Valley was Batman for a while and then became Azreal. For a bit there, Thor was a horse-faced alien named Beta Ray Bill.

The Green Lantern, Flash, Hawkman, Captain Marvel, Blue Beetle and Atom that you know aren't the original versions. They are much better and that's why they lasted. They didn't feel the need to create new superheroes. Why should current creators have to play by different rules than the guys in the sixties?

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by DrNefario

The Star Wars Extended Universe was officially canon until Disney, which I always thought was a mistake. Secondary material like that can become a bit of a ball-and-chain. Disney made the right choice by distching it - you can't expect movie goers to know 30 years worth of events that happened since Return of the Jedi, you aren't going to be able to explain everyhing in the opening crawl, and the actors are all too old to pick up from there. I'm not necessarily happy with the way they took it, but I think they made the right call to ignore the extended universe.

I'm quite happy with a flexible reality where things are free to reinvent themselves and disregard inconvenient bits of the past. I think my favourite reboot strategy is where they acknowledge the past but aren't bound by it, like the start of the new Battlestar Galactica, or the bits in the first episode of Buffy that seem to be referring to the film but actually aren't, or the pick-and-choose attitude of Doctor Who.

Interesting thoughts. I had forgotten about the Battlestar Galactica reboot. While I saw the Buffy movie, it was more of a campy spoof, so I never really considered it as part of the Buffy canon.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I've not read any of the books, but I went and read this on Wikipedia:



That seems sensible to me.

Just keep in mind that some LOTR fans learned to write in elvish runes. SF&F fans can be quite, shall we say obsessive, at times as anyone who has been to a SF&F convention well knows.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Just keep in mind that some LOTR fans learned to write in elvish runes. SF&F fans can be quite, shall we say obsessive, at times as anyone who has been to a SF&F convention well knows.

Yeah, I know. Star Trek fans can speak Klingon. I think it's cool that someone built an office building to look like the starship Enterprise (that's more Voyager than Enterprise to me, but whatever). I support the lady that wanted to serve her jury duty in a Star Trek uniform. That's just never been my bag.

I read comics, horror, fantasy and sci-fi. I like all sorts of nerdy cult stuff. But I never considered myself part of 'fandom'

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

...
I support the lady that wanted to serve her jury duty in a Star Trek uniform.
...
'

Well, that's one way to make sure you are never actually chosen for an actual jury. I'll have to keep that particular trick in mind.

[mewmartigan]

I enjoyed reading the Extended Universe stuff. Some of it was great. Some of it was okay and some of the better ideas are being re-incorporated as canon. Zahn was the one who came up with Coruscant and Lucas used it in the prequels. With Zahn's new Thrawn books, the character and his species are now canon again.

Very early in the expanded universe Han and Leia had twins. If you've seen The Force Awakens its obvious why Disney needed to sweep all that stuff under the rug, haha.

[Bookstooge]

I was a huge EU fan. I read them all starting with Zahn's trilogy and ended up buying almost all the star wars books in hardcover (from the SFBC) up until Disney axed the EU. Man, I was an angry camper that day. I haven't really considered myself a star wars fan since...

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

For me, Star Wars is the six George Lucas-era movies. The only Star Wars movie I personally care for is the first one. That movie is a watershed in history.

But Star Wars changed when it was sold to Disney from an artistic endevor to a corporate franchise.

Agreed on the "George Lucas-era movies" being Star Wars... though I didn't watch the second batch of three because I didn't like the Ewoks and I was getting tired of the whole thing. The first one, though, at the time was amazing. There had been nothing like it. Some kid they interviewed had watched it 70-some times at the theater and he wasn't all that exceptional. In 1977 they didn't have the same kind of wide releases they have now. As long as the movie was popular in first run theaters it didn't get to the boonies — some people had to wait months to see it. I'm guessing if this movie had been released in 2019 (and it had been as innovative as the 1977 movie was at the time) it probably would have grossed $5 billion. It was huge.

[kyrilson]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Sorry man. But here you are just wrong.

Aliens is G.I. Joe in space. It's a good movie. But better than Ridley Scott's original? Please...



That doesn't bother me and it is nothing new. It's just become trendy to whine about it now.

What eventually happens is the original hero comes back and one of them assumes a new identity. James Rhodes was Iron Man, then became War Machine, Riri Williams became Ironheart Alan Scott, Hal Jordan, Guy Gardner, John Stewart, and Kyle Rayner have all been The Green Lantern. Jean-Paul Valley was Batman for a while and then became Azreal. For a bit there, Thor was a horse-faced alien named Beta Ray Bill.

The Green Lantern, Flash, Hawkman, Captain Marvel, Blue Beetle and Atom that you know aren't the original versions. They are much better and that's why they lasted. They didn't feel the need to create new superheroes. Why should current creators have to play by different rules than the guys in the sixties?

Leebase is correct. Aliens is better than Alien.