Kobo firmware still sucks

[Quoth]

I don't think Amazon HW or SW is much different to Kobo.

[NiLuJe]

The inner guts of the Amazon SW stack are *vastly* more complex than Nickel's. It's *extremely* modular, worked on by a *large* amount of different people, and it shows (for good and ill).

(To be clear: I'm not talking about what Joe Random actually ends up seeing on his device, but very specifically the technical details of how it's all implemented).

[Braid]

Originally Posted by mbovenka

But that's what their purpose is. Reading. All else is gravy. Not to you, perhaps, but to 99.9% of the audience. They are also not meant to organize hundreds or thousands of books. That's what Calibre is for.

Up to a point this is of course my opinion, but it does seem to match that of the Amazons en Kobos of this world.

I agree. While I use my e-ink readers for academic work, such as researching topics for essays, involving lots of dictionary use, highlighting and note-taking, that is not what these devices are primarily designed for. These devices are designed for reading - especially casual, spontaneous reading, for immersion and enjoyment.

Spoiler - promotional images for Kindle and Kobo devices:

Spoiler:

As we can see in these images from advertisements and others, Kindle and Kobo advertise their products with people reading in cafes and restaurants, bus stops, swimming pools, and country fields. These adverts emphasise a 'curl up with a good book' way of reading, which is about enjoyment and convenience and immersion.

For this, the device must be as light as possible, so it is convenient to keep in your bag, and light enough to hold for long periods. As such, these devices eschew physical buttons, which would add size and weight, making it more difficult to hold, and less convenient to carry. While I would find physical buttons such as 'menu' and 'back' to be wonderfully useful, as they are much more reliable and satisfying to use, I can see why companies got rid of them.

Long battery life is also essential for these readers to provide a convenient, immersive experience. As large batteries would add lots of weight to the devices, the only option is to make the operating system use as little energy as possible. The result is that the navigation of books is clunky, especially PDF, and I believe functions such as highlighting suffer due to this economical operating system.

Of course, Lucas Malor, if you are reading, I assume you already know all of this. The reason I posted the images above is to show that Kindle and Kobo design their devices with a specific type of user in mind - the casual user. Then, I aimed to make the argument that designing devices for this casual user requires sacrificing ergonomically superior navigation buttons and processing power, which would have otherwise have been useful for making notes and highlights. Thus, I would like to make the argument that because Kindle and Kobo have such a strong focus on the casual reader rather than the academic, high-concentration reader, they will continue to design their firmware with this type of usage in mind. As such, Kindle and Kobo firmware, while being adequate for casual reading, will continue to suck for note-taking and other features associated with more intensive styles of reading. (Although, I do find highlighting on Kindle quite smooth.)

Firmware such as Coolreader and Koreader may demonstrate that, as others have commented, the poor highlighting experience is not an inevitable consequence of a low-energy device. But in using these alternatives, you must relinquish the niceties of the native firmware, such as well-designed browsing experience, searching, and high-quality dictionary features. For me, that was enough to go back to the default Kobo firmware.

In conclusion, while I think your proposed solution is fine and I hope someone listens and implements it, I think maybe you are barking up the wrong tree. Kobo aren't designing the firmware for your way of using their devices, and as such, maybe it is always going to disappoint you. Maybe rather than spending your life suffering with firmware that you believe to 'suck', and campaigning for the implementation of minor improvements, it would make sense to choose an e-reader that is designed with note-taking in mind as one of its primary functions. Alternatively, maybe your proposed highlighting solution will be implemented, and you will subsequently find the Kobo experience to be perfectly seamless, and live happily ever after.

[sickntwisted]

I have both the Kobo Aura and the latest version of the Kindle Paperwhite.

Regarding the annotations, I can't say much about it. Did it once to provide some feedback on a friend's book that I was reviewing and it was... OK.

As for the firmware, I couldn't disagree more. There are tons of things that I love about the Kobo that I can't seem to find on the Kindle (or maybe I just haven't searched enough).

For example, the fine tuning of the light. I love it on the Kobo, with its percentage scale. On the Kindle it's a slider that goes from 1 to 10(?) and it's a very higher grain of jumps between numbers.

The page count. On the Kobo I get a nice page 27/700. On the Kindle I have simply a 27. Why can't I have an easier access to the total number of pages there?

On the Kobo, I can see the cover of the book I'm reading with a simple tweak. On the Kindle this involves jailbreaking.

I import my books through Calibre. After each import, on the Kobo, I have the newly added books at the top of my lists. The same happens when I start reading a book, it goes to the top. With Kindle, I just need to connect to Calibre and the sorting is all ruined. Even if I start reading a new book, some random books jump to the top, according to the last time they were imported.

The battery life on the Kobo Aura is way better than on the Kindle, according to my usage.

I have my ereaders always in offline mode and the Kobo, from the start, simply provides me what I want - a list of books and easy access to them. The Kindle is so online oriented that I get popups of everything - "you finished reading this book, want to add it to Goodreads?" "Connect to the internet to see recommendations based on your reading habits", etc, etc, ad. nauseum. The majority of the options in the Kobo are related to the lists and the reading experience. Less than a quarter of the options in the settings of the Kindle are related to reading. It's accounts for this and that and some usability settings for things that aren't relevant for my market (chinese fonts, put the meaning of words on top of them to help guide new readers, etc). Nothing against these options, but Kobo's firmware is simply more tailored to provide a better reading experience - again, this is my opinion.

Then hardware-wise, the Kindle IS faster than my Kobo (although my Kobo Aura is the first or second version, not sure of it... quite some years and lots of bumps on it).

However... who on Earth thought it was a good idea to put the power button on the bottom of the Kindle Paperwhite? I go somewhere, I start reading and I put the ereader on a table at an angle to my face - as most often I would with a physical book - and the book is gone. This stupid button is the most stupidly designed thing in the history of all stupid stuff.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by sickntwisted

However... who on Earth thought it was a good idea to put the power button on the bottom of the Kindle Paperwhite? I go somewhere, I start reading and I put the ereader on a table at an angle to my face - as most often I would with a physical book - and the book is gone. This stupid button is the most stupidly designed thing in the history of all stupid stuff.

Probably related to the person who decided to place the power button for the Kobo Clara HD on the bottom of the device. Though the Clara's does require enough depression that simply placing it on a table at an angle will not activate the power button though dragging the bottom edge across the edge of the table will. This assumes that I have removed the Clara from it's cover which is not something that I do very often.

[Lucas Malor]

Originally Posted by NiLuJe

The big difference is how that hardware is tied together, as that's done entirely in-house with Amazon via lab126, while the board designs are from NTX on Kobo's side.

Well, indeed I've done a comparison of only the cpu of the top of the gamma, Kobo Forma and Kindle Oasis. The first uses a i.MX 6 Solo, while the second uses a i.Mx 7 Dual. The cpu of Oasis is clearly better than the one of Forma, but I have to say the biggest difference is the two cores. I don't know how much you take advantage of that on an e-reader.

Originally Posted by NiLuJe

The inner guts of the Amazon SW stack are *vastly* more complex than Nickel's. It's *extremely* modular, worked on by a *large* amount of different people, and it shows (for good and ill).

Well, I don't know much about the kindle code, but I take a look at Kobo, and... well... it seems a system done by a single geek... and I suspect is Gtalusan.

Originally Posted by Braid

it would make sense to choose an e-reader that is designed with note-taking in mind as one of its primary functions.

I think you're analysis is completely superficial and naive. Also Kindle have the same images you posted, and it supports annotations as well.

Anyway, can you please provide us a list of e-readers that are better than Kobo in annotating text?

[Braid]

Originally Posted by Lucas Malor

I think you're analysis is completely superficial and naive. Also Kindle have the same images you posted, and it supports annotations as well.

Indeed - my post states that the images are from both Kindle and Kobo devices. My post also states that I think highlighting works smoothly on Kindle devices.

I agree, my analysis is based only on common-sense and experience - I have no specialist or technical knowledge. Still, I hoped I could contribute something valuable to the discussion with my post; I'm sorry that you didn't find it useful.

[Pajamaman]

Both Kindle and Kobo in-book navigation do suck. Anyone who has configured Coolreader or Alreader screen-nav will know that. At least Kobo allow alternate software to be run

@OP. Try Coolreader. Under Android, the annotation system is nice. Not sure about kobo version.

@NiLuJe. Thanks for insight into kobo and kindle software and hardware. So the forma touchscreen is better and the H2O screen not so much? Can you comment on the clara?

[NiLuJe]

The Forma's using a capacitive grid that actually works as intended (unlike the one in the Aura One, which is hilariously terrible), while the H2O uses an IR grid.

I *think* the Clara ditched the IR grid, too, but don't quote me on that (I think the last Kobo device with an IR grid was the Glo HD, though, so that would track).

Note that I personally intensely dislike IR grids because of how iffy they are for precision one off taps, while some people love 'em because that means one less layer on top of the eInk screen.
The fact that they *require* a raised bezel because of the IR LED brackets, which end up being a dust magnet, is also a big no-no in my book.
I like my bezels flush .

[Lucas Malor]

Originally Posted by Braid

Still, I hoped I could contribute something valuable to the discussion with my post; I'm sorry that you didn't find it useful.

I'll find it useful when you cite some e-ink readers better than Kobo and Kindle at annotations.

[Lucas Malor]

Originally Posted by NiLuJe

blablabla

Emh. Please, translate it in English and speak as I'm an idiot 4-year child that doesn't know nothing about what you said, the world, the life and everything else.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by NiLuJe

I *think* the Clara ditched the IR grid, too, but don't quote me on that (I think the last Kobo device with an IR grid was the Glo HD, though, so that would track).

The Clara HD has a capacitive screen however it does not have a flush bezel. In some ways, I like the recess for the extra protection it gives the screen when I place the Clara facedown. I haven't noticed much dust/fluff collecting but unlike an IR screen, the capacitive screen should not have issues due to blocking the light path.

[Barbara1955]

Originally Posted by sickntwisted

I have both the Kobo Aura and the latest version of the Kindle Paperwhite.

Regarding the annotations, I can't say much about it. Did it once to provide some feedback on a friend's book that I was reviewing and it was... OK.

As for the firmware, I couldn't disagree more. There are tons of things that I love about the Kobo that I can't seem to find on the Kindle (or maybe I just haven't searched enough).

For example, the fine tuning of the light. I love it on the Kobo, with its percentage scale. On the Kindle it's a slider that goes from 1 to 10(?) and it's a very higher grain of jumps between numbers.

The page count. On the Kobo I get a nice page 27/700. On the Kindle I have simply a 27. Why can't I have an easier access to the total number of pages there?

On the Kobo, I can see the cover of the book I'm reading with a simple tweak. On the Kindle this involves jailbreaking.

I import my books through Calibre. After each import, on the Kobo, I have the newly added books at the top of my lists. The same happens when I start reading a book, it goes to the top. With Kindle, I just need to connect to Calibre and the sorting is all ruined. Even if I start reading a new book, some random books jump to the top, according to the last time they were imported.

The battery life on the Kobo Aura is way better than on the Kindle, according to my usage.

I have my ereaders always in offline mode and the Kobo, from the start, simply provides me what I want - a list of books and easy access to them. The Kindle is so online oriented that I get popups of everything - "you finished reading this book, want to add it to Goodreads?" "Connect to the internet to see recommendations based on your reading habits", etc, etc, ad. nauseum. The majority of the options in the Kobo are related to the lists and the reading experience. Less than a quarter of the options in the settings of the Kindle are related to reading. It's accounts for this and that and some usability settings for things that aren't relevant for my market (chinese fonts, put the meaning of words on top of them to help guide new readers, etc). Nothing against these options, but Kobo's firmware is simply more tailored to provide a better reading experience - again, this is my opinion.

Then hardware-wise, the Kindle IS faster than my Kobo (although my Kobo Aura is the first or second version, not sure of it... quite some years and lots of bumps on it).

However... who on Earth thought it was a good idea to put the power button on the bottom of the Kindle Paperwhite? I go somewhere, I start reading and I put the ereader on a table at an angle to my face - as most often I would with a physical book - and the book is gone. This stupid button is the most stupidly designed thing in the history of all stupid stuff.

Change Cases! I use this Style: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 & This for the Kobo: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
IF they do turn off the Kindle is just a swipe to unlock! The Kobo you have to re-start ! Both cases will put them to sleep when close depending on your device settings.

[Incanus]

Originally Posted by jackie_w

As a calibre user, Calibre Companion offers me all the book organisation I'd ever want or need on Android. All the Android epub/pdf reading apps need to be good at is the reading bit.

This is the main reason why I switched from a 2013 Kobo Aura with a 32Gb SDCard library (~12.500 ebooks) to a Boyue Likebook Mars (Android 6.0 E-Ink Tablet) with the same media storage/library size.

Anyone who reads my previous posts on this Kobo forum may tell you that my main problem with Kobo Aura was it's slow management (it was allways accurate and complete, mind) of my indeed large library from and SD Card: firmware udpates wouldn't solve it, no matter which firmware update I picked.

Looking around the market for many a month, starting with Kobo & Kindle, I couldn't find a good "pure" e-reader solution that could read an SDCard or had large internal memory and good library management (title, author, series, collections) so I started to look for an Android e-ink device, which I already knew would pale on the battery side compared with any and all current or recent Kobo o Kindle devices.

Best battery life with the Likebook Mars (2 weeks) is only half as good as tipycal battery life with the Kobo Aura (1 month)...

...but library management with Calibre Companion (including desktop and cloud sync) is simply superb (title, author, series, collections, tags; search and/or filter, e-book and calibre metadata), and the native e-reader + dictionary is as good as you would want it to be, since you can install whatever mobi/StarDict dictionary you like, including enciclopedias or translations.

And if you're not pleased with the firmware software, you can allways install other android e-readers and/or dictionaries and/or library managers.

Is the loss of battery life and extra $ worth it?

For me, it has for the past three months.

Yours,

[INCANUS]

[John F]

Since I prefer it over the manufacturers I have tried, I don't really use annotations, and I don't need on e-reader book management.

YMMV