New Mac Pro being released

[OtinG]

Originally Posted by tomsem

mouse support too:

https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/3/18...port-wwdc-2019

Wonder about track pads...

Looks like it is limited support, but at least that is a start. Better than no support at all.

[John F]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Plus, of course, you can always use iCloud which seems to be the preferred Apple method.

Can you expand on this? Are you talking about on a Mac? Looking at iCloud on my PC, I don't see anything for uploading music.

I'm interested how it works/will work on a PC. My sister wants her CDs on her iPhone and she doesn't currently have a computer. I ripped the CDs for her, but Googling how to get them on her iPhone was a little more effort/complexity than I was expecting (iTunes with multiple libraries/accounts, or 3rd party apps.)

Thanks.

[Dylrob]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Plus, of course, you can always use iCloud which seems to be the preferred Apple method.

Well unless they’ve changed something in iOS 13, you unfortunately cannot import files into built-in music, video, or podcast apps from iCloud, nor set custom ringtones from it. (You can play files from iCloud, but it won’t remember where you left off)

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by Dylrob

Well unless they’ve changed something in iOS 13, you unfortunately cannot import files into built-in music, video, or podcast apps from iCloud, nor set custom ringtones from it. (You can play files from iCloud, but it won’t remember where you left off)

On the mac, when you turn Music support on with iCloud, the mp3 is automatically uploaded to iCloud. On the music app on the iPhone and iPad, if you turn Music support on, then it automatically uses the music in iCloud. If you want the file locally on the phone, you have to download it.

Now it may be that iTunes on the Windows device doesn't support Music, or perhaps you didn't turn Music on.

Right now, the only audiobooks that are uploaded to iCloud is Apple audiobooks.

[Dylrob]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

On the mac, when you turn Music support on with iCloud, the mp3 is automatically uploaded to iCloud. On the music app on the iPhone and iPad, if you turn Music support on, then it automatically uses the music in iCloud. If you want the file locally on the phone, you have to download it.

Now it may be that iTunes on the Windows device doesn't support Music, or perhaps you didn't turn Music on.

Right now, the only audiobooks that are uploaded to iCloud is Apple audiobooks.

Honestly the biggest concern for me is the ringtones. I hate that Apple charges the same amount for a 30 audio clip as they do for the entire song, even when you already own said song! Plus I like to control what part of a song is actually used, and have a bunch of non-music tones as well.

[kyteflyer]

Originally Posted by Dylrob

They said that syncing will be built into the Finder on Mac. Meanwhile iTunes will be sticking around on Windows.

Sync will only be with Catalina, I gather. Completely useless for someone like me who has older hardware with no intention of upgrading (i just wrote UNgrading there... freudian slip? LOL!).

I wonder if they will just arbitrarily delete itunes from computers which arent upgraded. I'm gradually turning away from Apple, I only stay because it "feels" more secure than Windows or Linux. But their recent decisions are causing me to think more about big brother.

[Dylrob]

Originally Posted by kyteflyer

Sync will only be with Catalina, I gather. Completely useless for someone like me who has older hardware with no intention of upgrading (i just wrote UNgrading there... freudian slip? LOL!).

I wonder if they will just arbitrarily delete itunes from computers which arent upgraded. I'm gradually turning away from Apple, I only stay because it "feels" more secure than Windows or Linux. But their recent decisions are causing me to think more about big brother.

iTunes is part of those MacOS versions. They’re not going to delete it. Though it may eventually lose compatibility with newer devices, just due to lack of updates.

[OtinG]

Originally Posted by kyteflyer

Sync will only be with Catalina, I gather. Completely useless for someone like me who has older hardware with no intention of upgrading (i just wrote UNgrading there... freudian slip? LOL!).

I wonder if they will just arbitrarily delete itunes from computers which arent upgraded. I'm gradually turning away from Apple, I only stay because it "feels" more secure than Windows or Linux. But their recent decisions are causing me to think more about big brother.

I wouldn't worry about Apple turning into "Big Brother" as much as they are being too parental, in the sense of having "house rules" and making us play by their rules as long as we live in their house. We may not like that part much, but the flip side is they guard us from the real "Big Brothers" out there who want our data to sell to other companies and/or the dark web, as well as guarding us from a government agencies when they get a little too aggressive in nosing into our business without just cause. I'm not paranoid, no tin foil hats in my house, but I'm definitely not naive either. Vigilance is the better word in this case. I feel like I'm being vigilant when I use my Apple devices. I feel like I'm in the bad part of town and down a dark ally all alone when I use Windows and Google apps and devices.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by Dylrob

iTunes is part of those MacOS versions. They’re not going to delete it. Though it may eventually lose compatibility with newer devices, just due to lack of updates.

I vaguely remember seeing a reference to having iTunes available for those who need it. Older versions of iTunes is actually available for download even now.

I've got an old mac mini that I use because there are a couple of software packages that stopped working with High Sierra. It still works fine. I suspect that at some point, iTunes and Books will no longer be able to connect to the online stores, but until that point, I plan to keep using it.

[OtinG]

I'm going to have to start weighing the plus and minus arguments for upgrading to Catalina on my MacBook Pro 15" Retina mid-2014 running Mojave.

A big minus is the lack of support for 32 bit apps, and I still have nearly 100 apps listed as 32 bit. Many of those are old apps I don't use and can simply delete. Many others are Adobe apps, and hopefully Adobe will update them to 64 bit. I think most of the 32 bit Adobe apps are no longer necessary though as they were probably for the pre-Adobe Cloud apps. But I still have a significant number of 32 bit apps that I need and want, including MS Office 2011 and the apps that I use with my security cameras. At any rate, any of the 32 bit apps I deem keepable can be transferred to my Mac Mini which will stay at High Sierra.

I prefer to have MS Office 2011 on my main computer, the MBP, but it won't survive a Catalina update. I already installed OpenOffice so I could switch to that, but I've been using MS Office for ever and am familiar with it. I hate Numbers with a passion.

My Mac Mini 2012 is still running High Sierra and I have no desire to upgrade it at all. It is already is slow enough, so I don't want to slow it more with Catalina. Plus it runs Bootcamp with Windows 10 as the dual boot OS, and I really don't want to mess that up and have to redo its setup. And of course I need a Mac on which to run my "must keep" 32 bit apps.

[binaryhermit]

(Makes completely unfunny joke about throwing a freshly-announced Mac Pro in a now last-gen Mac Pro)

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by OtinG

I'm going to have to start weighing the plus and minus arguments for upgrading to Catalina on my MacBook Pro 15" Retina mid-2014 running Mojave.

A big minus is the lack of support for 32 bit apps, and I still have nearly 100 apps listed as 32 bit. Many of those are old apps I don't use and can simply delete. Many others are Adobe apps, and hopefully Adobe will update them to 64 bit. I think most of the 32 bit Adobe apps are no longer necessary though as they were probably for the pre-Adobe Cloud apps. But I still have a significant number of 32 bit apps that I need and want, including MS Office 2011 and the apps that I use with my security cameras. At any rate, any of the 32 bit apps I deem keepable can be transferred to my Mac Mini which will stay at High Sierra.

I prefer to have MS Office 2011 on my main computer, the MBP, but it won't survive a Catalina update. I already installed OpenOffice so I could switch to that, but I've been using MS Office for ever and am familiar with it. I hate Numbers with a passion.

My Mac Mini 2012 is still running High Sierra and I have no desire to upgrade it at all. It is already is slow enough, so I don't want to slow it more with Catalina. Plus it runs Bootcamp with Windows 10 as the dual boot OS, and I really don't want to mess that up and have to redo its setup. And of course I need a Mac on which to run my "must keep" 32 bit apps.

I think that Apple announced that 32 bit apps would be phased out several years ago. The current version warns that the app is not optimized for the mac if it's 32 bit. I would suggest that any company that hasn't updated their apps to 64 bit by now might not be actively working on that app. Heck, even Bare Bones updated Yojimbo to 64 bit.

With that said, if older apps are important, then don't upgrade. I keep my mac mini at Sierra for just that reason since several apps that I use stopped working with High Sierra.

One of the big reasons that Microsoft had so many problems with various releases of Windows is that they wanted to maintain support for old versions of software, many of which depended on "undocumented features" of the operating system. Maintaining backward compatibility can be a huge drag on moving forward. Apple has always been aggressive about forcing developers to only use the documented API and has been very upfront about backwards compatibility not being a major design criteria.

From a personal point of view, when I notice that an app hasn't been updated in a while and no longer seems to be under active development, I like to start looking for a replacement for it. That's not always possible, especially if you have hardware support requirements (I have a weather station hooked up as well as a USB scanner) but I've found it to be a good rule of thumb. At the moment, on my main computer, I don't have any 32 bit apps left that I actively use.

[OtinG]

Originally Posted by binaryhermit

(Makes completely unfunny joke about throwing a freshly-announced Mac Pro in a now last-gen Mac Pro)

After he attempted to grate some cheese on the sides of the new Mac Pro.

Apple failed to make the new one look as "sexy" as most of their new devices tend to look. The only design pizzaz is in the cheese grater sides, and those just look ridiculous IMO. So perhaps they finally decided to go with function over form for change. Nice change if so. At any rate it looks like they finally delivered a Mac Pro that was worth the money. A true power house, for change.

However, my mouth is still over a $4,999 monitor that does not come with a stand, but you can buy the optional stand for a mere $999! "Holy flaming guano, Batman!"

[OtinG]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

I think that Apple announced that 32 bit apps would be phased out several years ago. The current version warns that the app is not optimized for the mac if it's 32 bit. I would suggest that any company that hasn't updated their apps to 64 bit by now might not be actively working on that app. Heck, even Bare Bones updated Yojimbo to 64 bit.

With that said, if older apps are important, then don't upgrade. I keep my mac mini at Sierra for just that reason since several apps that I use stopped working with High Sierra.

One of the big reasons that Microsoft had so many problems with various releases of Windows is that they wanted to maintain support for old versions of software, many of which depended on "undocumented features" of the operating system. Maintaining backward compatibility can be a huge drag on moving forward. Apple has always been aggressive about forcing developers to only use the documented API and has been very upfront about backwards compatibility not being a major design criteria.

From a personal point of view, when I notice that an app hasn't been updated in a while and no longer seems to be under active development, I like to start looking for a replacement for it. That's not always possible, especially if you have hardware support requirements (I have a weather station hooked up as well as a USB scanner) but I've found it to be a good rule of thumb. At the moment, on my main computer, I don't have any 32 bit apps left that I actively use.

I certainly don't blame Apple for dropping the 32 bit app support. And yes, a lot of current developers are being lazy and cheap by not updating their apps. However, the biggest impact to me personally will be over freeware developed for my two hobbies of astrophotography and amateur radio (I'm a ham operator). It is rare to find any apps for these two niche areas, and unfortunately most of those were written long ago and do not support 64 bit. Since they were freeware, I cannot complain. I understand the authors not wanting to spend the time and money to update them. I used to publish a new book every few years to help people studying for the US Amateur Radio Extra Class exam pass their math portion. In the book I looked at each possible math question and showed how to resolve it. Since the question pool was updated every few years, I had to create a new edition of my book every few years. I sold it for only $0.99 at first only because Amazon would not let me list it for free several years ago when I published the first edition. Eventually they allowed me to list at for free, so I dropped the price to $0.00. The point was not to make money, but to help other hams on their more advanced exams. It took a lot of work to create each new edition, so I finally stopped doing that with the last question pool update. Too much time was required, and not enough energy left in my old bones! So I get why these app authors don't want to invest any more time in their old freeware apps. But it will still be an inconvenience to no longer have them on my main Mac.

I always wait until the final release of MacOS and iOS before installing. I prefer to let others find the bugs. And I prefer to wait and see how the new OS will effect speed and performance on my older devices. I'll decide whether to install Catalina in the Fall. I'm pretty sure I'll install iOS 13 on my iPhone XR and iPad Pro 9.7" though. The new iPhone XR will definitely have the power to use iOS 13, but I'm not sure about my older iPad as it is already a bit sluggish on iOS 12.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by OtinG

I certainly don't blame Apple for dropping the 32 bit app support. And yes, a lot of current developers are being lazy and cheap by not updating their apps. However, the biggest impact to me personally will be over freeware developed for my two hobbies of astrophotography and amateur radio (I'm a ham operator). It is rare to find any apps for these two niche areas, and unfortunately most of those were written long ago and do not support 64 bit. Since they were freeware, I cannot complain. I understand the authors not wanting to spend the time and money to update them. I used to publish a new book every few years to help people studying for the US Amateur Radio Extra Class exam pass their math portion. In the book I looked at each possible math question and showed how to resolve it. Since the question pool was updated every few years, I had to create a new edition of my book every few years. I sold it for only $0.99 at first only because Amazon would not let me list it for free several years ago when I published the first edition. Eventually they allowed me to list at for free, so I dropped the price to $0.00. The point was not to make money, but to help other hams on their more advanced exams. It took a lot of work to create each new edition, so I finally stopped doing that with the last question pool update. Too much time was required, and not enough energy left in my old bones! So I get why these app authors don't want to invest any more time in their old freeware apps. But it will still be an inconvenience to no longer have them on my main Mac.

I always wait until the final release of MacOS and iOS before installing. I prefer to let others find the bugs. And I prefer to wait and see how the new OS will effect speed and performance on my older devices. I'll decide whether to install Catalina in the Fall. I'm pretty sure I'll install iOS 13 on my iPhone XR and iPad Pro 9.7" though. The new iPhone XR will definitely have the power to use iOS 13, but I'm not sure about my older iPad as it is already a bit sluggish on iOS 12.

Yep, niche apps are a problem from that standpoint. I have a weather station and scanner that are very much niche products. Those are the two big apps that I worry about each update. Fortunately the weather station is supported by a commercial app that is still actively being updated. The scanner is somewhat more problematic, but then again, I don't really use it all that often.

I have a laptop I install beta versions of macOS on. It's fairly vanilla. I install beta versions of iOS on my iPad mini, though they recommend waiting for the public beta unless you are actively developing for iOS 13. I only install official releases on my iMac and iPad Pro.

iOS seems to be a lot more likely to have orphaned apps.