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04-15-2019, 03:50 PM | #16 |
Wizard
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04-15-2019, 04:03 PM | #17 |
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He singled him out because he is this "sainted" figure, whose scholarship is supposed to be above reproach and unable to be coerced or bought. And to find that he was repeating the same unsubstantiated falsehoods as others, with no critical thinking about the source of the gossip, felt like a betrayal. And those are always the most biting.
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04-15-2019, 04:06 PM | #18 | |
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04-15-2019, 05:37 PM | #19 |
Grand Sorcerer
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This is one of the greatest mysteries ever? No, I don't think so.
Despite the high praise for it, I didn't have especially high expectations, but I was still disappointed. I simply don't see much that's truly special here. It was thankfully short, and mostly held my attention, though with my limited knowledge of English history, it was hard for me to follow who was who and their tangled relationships. I didn't especially dislike Grant, but the way he put such stock in faces was ridiculous. Perhaps I'm jaded, but I also didn't see the impossibility of the mother of the princes continuing to seem to maintain a good relationship with Richard. Why not? Is it impossible to imagine that (1) she acted one way for her own survival and thought another, or (2) she did not care about her children? The "tonypandy" was interesting (I'm going to have to find an opportunity to use that word on Facebook!), but it's hardly surprising that history is written by the winners. I was annoyed that Grant didn't know Sir Thomas More belonged to the time of Henry VIII--even I knew that. Of course, it's possible I know that only because of A Man for All Seasons, which certainly influenced my view of Sir Thomas, and made me annoyed by the ad nauseam use of the phrase "the sainted Sir Thomas." My intention is (was?) to read Alison Weir's The Princes in the Tower as a follow-up--since the prosecution always gets the last word--but I don't think the defense made much of a case here for that book to refute. |
04-15-2019, 06:47 PM | #20 |
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Just to revert back a moment to gmw’s point about Agatha Christie et al: the cases are different. In this book we are privy to Grant’s thoughts. In Christie, we are told about Poirot and hear his conversations.
All those books are absolutely dripping with class distinctions. Sayers positively fawns over Wimsey, who is of course a Lord, being the son of a Duke. |
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04-15-2019, 06:56 PM | #21 |
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I agree with a lot of what’s been said, both positive and negative. I found the book engaging, and I’d give the book 3.5. In school, history was ‘dead kings, despots and wars’, so I tuned out. But Tey sparked my interest, and I spent more hours looking up English history than I did reading the actual book.
But I do agree with gmw that Grant is very poor investigator! I kept reminding myself that Tey didn’t have the internet at her fingertips. But Grant seemed like an apologist for her position, than a trained investigator. His language is loaded with positive adjectives for everything Richard, and pejorative for the opposing side. And Carradine omits the evidence that goes against Richard. Like CRussel, I try to take sexist language with a grain of salt. I think it’s inevitable that some of the sexism, racism and classism of the day will creep into older books. But I’m not sure it crept in here. I thought Tey deliberately used sexist language to portray Grant as a hardened police office. But the descriptions of the nurses felt clumsy and overdone, so it wasn’t very believable - more like a stereotype than a person. And it wasn’t consistent with Grant’s character anyway. His housekeeper, cousin and friend wouldn’t all be so fond of him, if he was really that dismissive of women as people. So I think she does Grant a disservice with the language. Sorry for the long ramble. It was interesting, with some flaws. I bought the other Grant novels, but am hoping Tey will let Grant be more objective when he’s investigating crime, and she’s less personally invested in the outcome. |
04-15-2019, 06:59 PM | #22 | |
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04-15-2019, 07:02 PM | #23 | |
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Also of course a time before the information we have so much more readily available to us now, plus memories of Paul Schofield as Sir Thomas More. Try reading Hilary Mantel for a much less flattering portrait of him! Tey had also made the point that we tend to link people with one particular reign, but that it is perfectly possible for them to live through several. So More was a child at the time Richard was king, and his document, on which much else hangs, including Shakespeare’s play, was someone else’s version of events. In Tudor times it was the only version. |
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04-15-2019, 07:11 PM | #24 |
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I think you make a good point in Grant’s favour, Victoria. I can’t see his housekeeper or his Sergeant coming to visit him in hospital if he wasn’t someone they both liked and felt comfortable with.
I think the comments about the nurses, and Grant’s amusement over things like Mrs Tinker’s reference to “me blue” (her best outfit) are there as comedy which just isn’t funny to us. |
04-15-2019, 09:19 PM | #25 | |
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And I agree with both you and Victoria -- if Grant were as dismissive as stated, he would not have been visited by those who did choose to visit. |
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04-15-2019, 09:51 PM | #26 | ||
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I am surprised that it is so high at the top of the best mystery ever lists. However, I can appreciate Bookpossum's statement about its unique approach that made history seem more reachable to the average non-scholarly person. When I read this book the first time, it certainly made me more interested in history and prompted me to do more research on the topic. I too was annoyed by the he just "looks" like a man of integrity, but I suppose the pictures allowed her to have a decent method to introduce Grant's bed-side detecting. I read that Tey taught physical training and worked at a convalescent home as a V.A.D. I wonder if her experience in this area influenced her choice of setting and sparked the idea for this book. |
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04-15-2019, 10:03 PM | #27 | ||
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I too find it very difficult to follow this period of history, especially as an American. I don't think we get as much instruction in English history as others, and we don't get to go on fun school trips to castles and English museums. Although, I thought it was funny that Grant made fun of English school boys wanting to skip past this confusing era of Yorks and Lancasters so they can get to the Tudors. |
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04-15-2019, 10:18 PM | #28 | |
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04-15-2019, 10:23 PM | #29 | |
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04-15-2019, 11:08 PM | #30 | |||
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I think so much of what I know of English history came from movies--Becket, Lion in Winter, Anne of the Thousand Days, etc. I never got into Shakespeare's historical plays much, though I did see Richard III on Broadway with Al Pacino; he overpowered the play with a scenery-chewing performance. But I digress. Quote:
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