George RR Martin - The Winds of Winter - Not coming soon. - Page 2

hildea · 11-13-2018, 03:58 PM

I think it's OK to be fallible, and to be optimistic, and to have unrealistic expectations of oneself. And to be "in everyone's face" about living their life the way they want to do.

Even for a successful author.

HarryT · 11-13-2018, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hildea

I think it's OK to be fallible, and to be optimistic, and to have unrealistic expectations of oneself. And to be "in everyone's face" about living their life the way they want to do.

Even for a successful author.

And it's equally OK for readers to complain when authors do break repeated deadlines. Even for a successful author

.

DiapDealer · 11-13-2018, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hildea

I think it's OK to be fallible, and to be optimistic, and to have unrealistic expectations of oneself. And to be "in everyone's face" about living their life the way they want to do.

Even for a successful author.

I believe that too. I also believe those same successful authors need to be prepared for the consequences of living their life the way they want to--fan disapproval chief among those consequences.

Dazrin · 11-13-2018, 08:22 PM

As others said, it isn't necessarily the wait, it is broken promises.

Martin's missed dates.
Rothfuss's "They are all written and just need to be edited so it shouldn't take long".
Etc.

If they didn't raise expectations by saying things like that would we still complain? Yes, of course we will, we want to read new things by our favorite authors. But it wouldn't be as bad since they wouldn't have raised our hopes. I know I would never have started the Kingkiller Chronicles if he hadn't said that.

pwalker8 · 11-13-2018, 08:53 PM

It does seem like the authors who get the most flack are the ones who have extremely long gaps. We've been waiting over 7 years for Rothfuss, Butcher has been over 4 years. Butcher I can understand, he was churning out books at a pretty good rate before this lull. Rothfuss is harder to understand. He's only produced 2 books. He talks about a lot of potential books, but he really needs to get going. Frankly, once you lose your audience, it's pretty hard to get it back.

At various times Jerry Pournelle use to talk about the need for discipline and forcing yourself to write every day.

pickyaxe · 11-14-2018, 05:24 AM

Uh, it's much more than the broken promises.

For example, rather than writing The Winds of Winter, GRRM has been busy at work writing Fire and Blood, a Targaryen history supplemental book that nobody asked for. A book which is 736 pages long.

issybird · 11-14-2018, 07:43 AM

I don't have a horse in this race, but it seems to me that any writer who's heavily into conventions and other activities which feed and profit from the fandom has to accept everything that goes with it in terms of fan expectations. My deeper respect has to go to the writer who doesn't try to feed and manipulate the fans, but just gets on with it. Or not - but then they haven't created the situation.

For that matter, why don't the fans boycott? Stop showing up at the conventions until he follows through?

GlenBarrington · 11-14-2018, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

And it's equally OK for readers to complain when authors do break repeated deadlines. Even for a successful author

.

Agreed! One thing I think this group has overlooked is that this delay is bad for Martin's business, assuming he wants that mythical next book to be successful.

I personally wouldn't buy that book, if it ever shows up, if it were on Kindle Unlimited. I wonder how many other people there are like me? This absurdly long delay has allowed me to learn to let that story go. I just don't care anymore. I have invested all my interest in the TV show and will settle for whatever ending HBO provides. I'm done.

Sirtel · 11-14-2018, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlenBarrington

I personally wouldn't buy that book, if it ever shows up, if it were on Kindle Unlimited. I wonder how many other people there are like me? This absurdly long delay has allowed me to learn to let that story go. I just don't care anymore. I have invested all my interest in the TV show and will settle for whatever ending HBO provides. I'm done.

Exactly this. Well, I probably would still buy the book, but I doubt I'll ever get around to reading it. Just don't care anymore. The TV show will be enough for me too.

Shad Plante · 11-14-2018, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by issybird

I don't have a horse in this race, but it seems to me that any writer who's heavily into conventions and other activities which feed and profit from the fandom has to accept everything that goes with it in terms of fan expectations. My deeper respect has to go to the writer who doesn't try to feed and manipulate the fans, but just gets on with it. Or not - but then they haven't created the situation.

For that matter, why don't the fans boycott? Stop showing up at the conventions until he follows through?

That is what I always think about when I hear Scalzi trot out that line. It works both ways.

DiapDealer · 11-14-2018, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlenBarrington

I personally wouldn't buy that book, if it ever shows up, if it were on Kindle Unlimited. I wonder how many other people there are like me? This absurdly long delay has allowed me to learn to let that story go. I just don't care anymore. I have invested all my interest in the TV show and will settle for whatever ending HBO provides. I'm done.

I'm somewhat the same. Book four was a huge disappointment for me after the wait (like no-one could have told him that leaving everyone's favorite characters out of a book fans had waited 5 years for would be a bit of a mistake

). And book five never did get going for me, so I stopped after a few chapters. I'm done with the book series. I used to enjoy his "Dunk and Egg" novellas much more; but then he hasn't written one of those in--what... seven years or so?

The only difference between you and me, is that I'm done with the TV series as well. Got tired of watching them making it a contest to see just how much boobs and gore could possibly be wedged into the timeslot. Stopped watching about halfway through season four. *yawn* Plus, I'm not willing to encourage authors who've tired of producing their own magnum opuses (yes, I chose that over magna opera) to punt all the heavy lifting to the television execs just because they've grown weary of the slog.

Trivia: name some other Major US/UK book series (whose author was alive and still "writing it") where the television adaptation was allowed to pass it up and spoil the ending for readers.

What true author would allow someone else to present/produce the ending to their life's work, while they still had breath and health to finish it themselves first?

Spoiler:

Ammonite · 11-14-2018, 12:39 PM

I've been waiting on GRRM and Rothfuss like many others here, and I'm not going to reward their behavior with my money if those remaining books ever come out. Yes, writers are not machines and reasonable time should be given for someone to finish a story.

That said, reader/audience attention/interest also matters. We're familiar with the idea of timing with jokes, and how a late delivery can ruin it. Or, movie or TV show or album releases which are sequels. Life is precious and time is valuable. There is so much media to consume out there and other things to enjoy before life is over; readers are not obligated to support or praise a writer with misleading announcements and repeated failures to meet deadlines.

ZodWallop · 11-14-2018, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlenBarrington

Agreed! One thing I think this group has overlooked is that this delay is bad for Martin's business, assuming he wants that mythical next book to be successful.

I'm not a gambler, but in this case I'd be willing to bet that The Winds of Winter and Dreams of Spring (or whatever the last projected title is) will top the best seller lists.

Sci-Fi/Fantasy fans bitch about stuff even as they continue to line up to pay for the next installment (that they'll also hate on). See Star Wars, Superhero movies, the Dune continuations, etc. Marketers figured that out. That's why pop culture has turned so heavily to their interests.

ZodWallop · 11-14-2018, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Trivia: name some other Major US/UK book series (whose author was alive and still "writing it") where the television adaptation was allowed to pass it up and spoil the ending for readers.

What true author would allow someone else to present/produce the ending to their life's work, while they still had breath and health to finish it themselves first?

Spoiler:

Not US/UK. But Akira did it.

DiapDealer · 11-14-2018, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Not US/UK. But Akira did it.

That's a "major" book series? A Big 6 (or one of their imprints) publisher? One out three ain't bad, I guess.

11-14-2018, 12:39 PM	#27
Ammonite Member Posts: 14 Karma: 44696 Join Date: Oct 2018 Device: Kobo Forma	I've been waiting on GRRM and Rothfuss like many others here, and I'm not going to reward their behavior with my money if those remaining books ever come out. Yes, writers are not machines and reasonable time should be given for someone to finish a story. That said, reader/audience attention/interest also matters. We're familiar with the idea of timing with jokes, and how a late delivery can ruin it. Or, movie or TV show or album releases which are sequels. Life is precious and time is valuable. There is so much media to consume out there and other things to enjoy before life is over; readers are not obligated to support or praise a writer with misleading announcements and repeated failures to meet deadlines. Last edited by Ammonite; 11-14-2018 at 12:41 PM. Reason: Grammar

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11-13-2018, 03:58 PM	#16
hildea Wizard Posts: 1,315 Karma: 67561852 Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Norway Device: PocketBook Touch Lux (had Onyx Boox Poke 3 and BeBook Neo earlier)	I think it's OK to be fallible, and to be optimistic, and to have unrealistic expectations of oneself. And to be "in everyone's face" about living their life the way they want to do. Even for a successful author.

11-13-2018, 08:22 PM	#19
Dazrin Wizard Posts: 2,729 Karma: 75825105 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: PDXish Device: Kindle Voyage, various Android devices	As others said, it isn't necessarily the wait, it is broken promises. Martin's missed dates. Rothfuss's "They are all written and just need to be edited so it shouldn't take long". Etc. If they didn't raise expectations by saying things like that would we still complain? Yes, of course we will, we want to read new things by our favorite authors. But it wouldn't be as bad since they wouldn't have raised our hopes. I know I would never have started the Kingkiller Chronicles if he hadn't said that.

11-13-2018, 08:53 PM	#20
pwalker8 Grand Sorcerer Posts: 7,196 Karma: 70314280 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Atlanta, GA Device: iPad Pro, iPad mini, Kobo Aura, Amazon paperwhite, Sony PRS-T2	It does seem like the authors who get the most flack are the ones who have extremely long gaps. We've been waiting over 7 years for Rothfuss, Butcher has been over 4 years. Butcher I can understand, he was churning out books at a pretty good rate before this lull. Rothfuss is harder to understand. He's only produced 2 books. He talks about a lot of potential books, but he really needs to get going. Frankly, once you lose your audience, it's pretty hard to get it back. At various times Jerry Pournelle use to talk about the need for discipline and forcing yourself to write every day.

11-14-2018, 05:24 AM	#21
pickyaxe Addict Posts: 289 Karma: 3762916 Join Date: Nov 2011 Device: none	Uh, it's much more than the broken promises. For example, rather than writing The Winds of Winter, GRRM has been busy at work writing Fire and Blood, a Targaryen history supplemental book that nobody asked for. A book which is 736 pages long.

11-14-2018, 07:43 AM	#22
issybird o saeclum infacetum Posts: 21,302 Karma: 234636059 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: New England Device: Mini, H2O, Glo HD, Aura One, PW4, PW5	I don't have a horse in this race, but it seems to me that any writer who's heavily into conventions and other activities which feed and profit from the fandom has to accept everything that goes with it in terms of fan expectations. My deeper respect has to go to the writer who doesn't try to feed and manipulate the fans, but just gets on with it. Or not - but then they haven't created the situation. For that matter, why don't the fans boycott? Stop showing up at the conventions until he follows through?

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