Amazon Seller protection and deception?

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

No, I believe this one, except in black:


https://smile.amazon.com/Tolino-Erea.../dp/B079M5K3W9

Yep, that's the one I'm supposed to be getting (except mine was black, as you say). What's funny is I didn't even see the blue one advertised when I bought mine, but now the one I did order is no longer appearing (even when I click it from my order page).

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by rcentros

Yep, that's the one I'm supposed to be getting (except mine was black, as you say). What's funny is I didn't even see the blue one advertised when I bought mine, but now the one I did order is no longer appearing (even when I click it from my order page).

You also notice that not only the bad reviews are gone, but ALL reviews are gone from the 2 remaining colors. But other items from the same seller still got reviews. So they probably cheated by taking the old listings off, and replaced with new listings. No way to find out now as the black one is gone - the only product number you could check against from your order page.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by rcentros

I assume Amazon controls the store front and seller profile ratings. If not (if the seller is allowed to revise their own ratings), then the seller profile ratings really are absolutely useless.

Of course Amazon controls it. But I'd be extremely surprised if Amazon made such changes without the seller's request to do so (through complaint/dispute or the request for specific listing deletions). And I already assume that all online consignment-seller profile ratings are absolutely worthless.

Originally Posted by rcentros

In this case over 25% of the comments (the negative ones) disappeared over night. I don't see how that could happen without Amazon's intervention.

It probably couldn't. But I'm also not going to assume that the system in place can't be gamed by sellers in some ways (see DuckyTigger's mention of listing deletion/replacement above). In fact, I'd be pretty surprised if it couldn't. So again: how is the seller completely exonerated of any shenanigans, here?

Originally Posted by rcentros

And it's definitely in Amazon's interest to clean up a seller's profile.

Sure. If they were doing it with lots and lots of sellers (though I still don't believe they're randomly improving sellers' ratings without some request from said sellers to kick the process off; or that sellers aren't able to directly manipulate their own ratings though technical loopholes), then they're (Amazon) going to nickel and dime their way to profits. But I think it's pretty hard to deny that the biggest and most immediate beneficiary of such a "whitewashing" would be the seller themselves, no?

Don't get me wrong; I think the whole third-party seller (where Amazon doesn't control the warehousing and shipping of the product) is a shady, scary, and easily gamed system that I want no part of. But I'm going to throw the blame for that where it belongs: everywhere. Sleazy sellers for doing the gaming, and Amazon for turning a blind eye while they do. *shrug*

[Calenorn]

Using Chinese vendors via Amazon is dicey. I ordered a cover for the Kobo Clara. Got a shipping number. A couple of days later, looked at the order on Amazon, clicked the product link - error page. Hmmm. The page usually stays even when they sell out. Clicked the vendor storefront - error page. Uh oh.

A few days later the vendor has returned; same name, "brand new" - no ratings. Fortunately USPS has spotted my package at their sorting facility, so I expect it will arrive.

I enjoy the low prices from these vendors, but I do not think any returns would be possible.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by Calenorn

Using Chinese vendors via Amazon is dicey. I ordered a cover for the Kobo Clara. Got a shipping number. A couple of days later, looked at the order on Amazon, clicked the product link - error page. Hmmm. The page usually stays even when they sell out. Clicked the vendor storefront - error page. Uh oh.

A few days later the vendor has returned; same name, "brand new" - no ratings. Fortunately USPS has spotted my package at their sorting facility, so I expect it will arrive.

I enjoy the low prices from these vendors, but I do not think any returns would be possible.

Yep. I've gotten a few products that way. The major vendors with a website, etc seem to be ok, but I've run across a few where it took a long while and didn't work when it got here. At one time Amazon was pretty good about refunding when there was something shady about the vendor, but I've been a lot more picky about vendors in recent years so I can't really say if they still will do that or not.

[Pajamaman]

It's very serious if Amazon is complicit in allowing a vendor to remove negative feedback. I expect the occasional bad vendor to cheat. But if Amazon is allowing it, then the system is rotten. I googled it, but couldn't find anything.

[Pajamaman]

Unrelated, but worrying. I was looking at flash drives on Amazon sold by 3rd-party vendors, and many buyers reported the flash drives they got were fake (i.e. they claimed to xx GB, but were not). The vendors continued to sell without any redress for the scammed buyers, and Amazon allows them to continue selling. Hmmm. It seems to me Amazon is allowing it. As such, I am reluctant to buy a flash drive from Amazon.

[GlenBarrington]

I just don't buy from Amazon sellers from China that Amazon doesn't do fulfillment for. There are WAY too many variables (from culture, to language, to what "good business practice" means) to make for a consistently reliable ordering experience.

They could be considered very reliable and honest by Chinese standards, but that doesn't automatically mean they are capable of servicing the American market.

[maddz]

I’ve generally had good experiences with Chinese sellers on Amazon UK. If I’m unsure of anything I contact the seller and don’t buy if I get a bad response.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by maddz

I’ve generally had good experiences with Chinese sellers on Amazon UK. If I’m unsure of anything I contact the seller and don’t buy if I get a bad response.

That was the thing, I did check the seller's rating but it seems to be in flux.

At any rate I sent an email to the seller, just to let them know I hadn't gotten the case yet, and got an almost immediate response — with an offer for a refund. I'm reluctant to do that as I got a refund from an English seller for a used book, that showed up about three weeks later. And Amazon had no way for me to "un-refund" the refund. I've got a feeling with the current trade tension between China and the United States, that shipments will become slower and less predictable. But on eBay, quite a few of the Chinese sellers advertise "e-Packet" delivery with tracking numbers.

At any rate this is the response I got ...

Thanks for your message. Because we are shipped from China, usually it will take 7-23 business days to reach you,Now it's so long haven't reached, We think maybe due to the customs detention. We are so sorry to take the unpleasant shopping experience to you.

I am afraid that this product will also have customs issues,so we can't resend the new one.We will full refund to you, is this OK?

Which is a little confusing, if this issue really is customs, why are they currently offering the same product in blue on Amazon now?

Ah, well. I'll wait a few days.

As for the other responses, you're probably right — Amazon is probably not as guilty as I tried to make them. But I do like the way negative feedback stays on eBay — it allows me to judge the fairness of the criticism for myself instead of getting a whitewashed version of the feedback.

[FizzyWater]

I've had a couple things happen on Seller reviews that might also be affecting the scores you see:

1. I had bracelet arrive that wasn't the one I ordered. I put a review that it was pretty enough, but not the one I ordered, and downgraded the score by a couple of stars due to the error. They saw the review, contacted me, then sent me the correct one - and told me to keep the other one, too. They asked me to revise my score, which I was happy to do, since I was happy with the end result.

2. I once bought an cloth-covered storage container that was sold as new, but when it arrived, it had black smudges inside it. It was either used, or very poorly handled when it was shipped. I posted a Seller review saying I felt they'd misrepresented the item (used, not new - or at least not pristine). Amazon deleted my review and said that kind of comment had to go on as a product review, not a Seller review. I disagreed, but let it go.

[Hemmi]

I don't doubt that Amazon allows sellers to manipulate their reviews. They let authors manipulate their book reviews. And people wonder why I refuse to buy anything from Amazon. I don't trust anything from them.

[janrey]

Originally Posted by rcentros

At the beginning of July I ordered a case for my Tolino Page from an Amazon seller who had good ratings. I didn't pay the extra for expedited shipping (I think it was over $30 to do that for a $7.50 case) and knew the case was coming from China -- so expected a long wait. The case shipped on July 6th (without tracking) and was due by July 25 to August 15th (yesterday). It hasn't arrived but it's not far out of the range yet.

However ... getting a little antsy and checking the seller's ratings yesterday, I was a bit disturbed to see that the 30 day rating had dropped to 71% positive and 27% negative, with 2% neutral. The 90 day rating was a bit better, but the negative ratings were still around 20%. Several reviewers reported never receiving their order, some reported extremely slow shipping, or product damaged or not as advertised. "Well, crud," I thought, "I've been waiting a month and a half for something that may not show up."

So tonight I look at my order and Amazon "helpfully" tells me that "Your package was probably delivered, as we expected it to arrive by now." Well, they have no way of knowing that it hasn't arrived ... no big deal, but let me take a look at that seller's ratings again (I was worried that the bottom had fallen out and they had just quit shipping orders and wanted to see if more negative reviews had been posted).

Imagine my surprise when, clicking on the seller's profile, I find this seller now has a 100% positive rating, both for 30 days and 90 days out. All the negative reviews are "magically" gone. In other's words, the seller's profile is a complete fabrication. If this isn't fraud, it sure as hell borders on it. I've come to depend on seller's ratings on eBay to gauge the honesty of the sellers -- with Amazon, apparently, the seller profile is a useless waste of time. How does Amazon get away with this? Even if they refund my payment (should the case not appear), I still don't want to waste my time with a seller who may -- or may not -- get the right product shipped to me in a timely manner.

Amazon is dripping sleaze here. If it's not fraud it's definitely a form of deception.

Amazon is excellent about giving you your money back if the item doesn't arrive. I would contact Amazon either via phone or chat or email and let them know that the date of delivery has passed. Items take a while to clear customs but not over a month. Also contact the seller (actually do this first), I have had glasses from Zenni Optical which come from China not have a tracking number until they cleared customs and got into the postal system. If they don't give you a satisfactory answer contact Amazon as above. They have always refunded my money when this occurred.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by janrey

Amazon is excellent about giving you your money back if the item doesn't arrive. I would contact Amazon either via phone or chat or email and let them know that the date of delivery has passed. Items take a while to clear customs but not over a month. Also contact the seller (actually do this first), I have had glasses from Zenni Optical which come from China not have a tracking number until they cleared customs and got into the postal system. If they don't give you a satisfactory answer contact Amazon as above. They have always refunded my money when this occurred.

Getting the money back is not really the problem. Wasting my time on an order from a place that has a spotty delivery record is the problem. If some of the comments had been "on record" that were there a few days ago (and then disappeared — again) I wouldn't have ordered from this vendor in the first place. I don't like to waste my time on an "iffy" vendor and I "stupidly" relied on the information in the seller profile to make my buying decision. It's become a trust issue. I can't trust the feedback information Amazon gives you in their seller profiles. eBay will get more of my business, their seller feedback reflects reality.

[Tarana]

Contact customer service and report these changes and possible fraud/hacking.