where to buy the sony 700 - Page 2

dhbailey · 10-21-2008, 06:51 PM

Are you saying that anything which uses a USB-mini port automatically uses the same voltage? I have a bluetooth earpiece which came with its own power adapter and uses the USB-mini jack but doesn't have anything to do with the USB port on my computer.

Is this some sort of standard that I didn't know about? Cool!

As for the PSP-adapter, yes I know it works because I interchangeably charge my reader and PSP from two different chargers, one which came with the PRS500 and one which came with the PSP.

gwynevans · 10-21-2008, 07:12 PM

USB is a standard voltage (5V) but you might find that 'dumb' chargers don't charge the Sony Reader via the USB port, although they will via the other (round) charger port.

ProDigit · 10-21-2008, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwynevans

USB is a standard voltage (5V) but you might find that 'dumb' chargers don't charge the Sony Reader via the USB port, although they will via the other (round) charger port.

you don't really need a smart charger to charge the battery; I have a strong hunch the reader has an internal system that coordinates the charging, provided it gets enough power to perform that task.
Even the Sony PSP adaptor is nothing more than a fancy old 'transformator',delivering the right voltage, & power, with build in capacitors to even out the output.

If the device can charge from a USB port it means the device needs a current of 500mA 5V or less,and some form of intelligent battery charging system inside.
I suspect the charger must be no less than 500mA, or you won't be able to slowcharge the reader via USB.

A mini USB connector generally has 4 lines,2 of which are powerlines (+5V, 0V), the 2 other are datachannels.
Generally a usb device taps power off the 2 channels, and even in chargemode normally doesn't interact with the charger. The arranging of charging (Smartcharger) is inside the reader itself.

Probably an AC adaptor using the chargerplug will only allow the reader to go into quickcharge.

gwynevans · 10-22-2008, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProDigit

A mini USB connector generally has 4 lines,2 of which are powerlines (+5V, 0V), the 2 other are datachannels.
Generally a usb device taps power off the 2 channels, and even in chargemode normally doesn't interact with the charger. The arranging of charging (Smartcharger) is inside the reader itself.

How's the phrase go - "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; In practice, there is"...

In practice, when you plug in a 'wall-wart' to the Sony via the usb socket, it won't (normally?) charge - They may show "USB connected" on the display, but the red LED, indicating power, won't stay lit. This may be in line with a strict reading of the USB spec, which does have something about devices being expected to negotiage at least the current to be supplied, but it's been a while since I looked at it & I don't recall the details enough to be sure either way. Generic PSP chargers using the barrel connector just work.

"Normally" as there might be some chargers that work, but if so, I'd expect that they have some form of 'smarts' in order to perform some form of communication with the device.

ProDigit · 10-22-2008, 11:11 AM

Then let me ask you why one is able to charge the device on a pc?
You'll notice that it doesn't matter what OS you have on the PC, even one that doesn't recognize the device, it should still be charging; unless you have multiple USB devices connected and the powerdraw of the reader would be too great to be supported by the USB port.

Normally if you connect only the reader to your USB port, and that USB port is the only port used in the USB hub of the pc, your pc should give 5V 500mA output.
This could drop to 300mA, 100mA, or even lower for standard data transfer only,when there are more than 1 device connected to the USB HUB.

On standard a desktop PC has 2 USB HUBs (differ with every pc), often one in the front connected to the cardreader and front USB plugs, and one in the back, often connected to 4 or 6 USB ports. Laptops usually only have 1 (connected) USB HUB.
A motherboard may have other USB hubs,or room for more hubs, but they're not always connected to a port.

That's one of the limitations there are to USB HUBs(the more you attach, the less power available).

According to me,the device does not need to connect to the pc sending data, the PC should automatically detect how much power the USB device draws. and if it's more than a USB port can provide, on old computers, the computer would hard reset;and on newer it'd just provide the mA it can provide to the device.
If the device, independantly of the computer knows that there is insufficient power available on the powerlines, it would shut down the charging process, and like you say,just open a channel for file or data transfert,or in case of an unsupported OS, it would open a channel which isn't replied by the OS, so you won't really be able to do anything with that channel.

If there is enough power available the device starts charging.

I don't know if fast charging is supported over the USB connection, but slow charging definately is.

If you don't believe me, then try out if you can find a USB extension cord and cut the data channel from the cord,it should still allow the reader to charge (normally)...

D+ & D- = datachannels.

I believe that just applying the right voltage to the right pins,with enough powerful poweradaptor should charge your batteries.
The reason being that there is no battery data transferred over USB connection

gwynevans · 10-22-2008, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProDigit

Then let me ask you why one is able to charge the device on a pc?

Because that level of connection is managed by the generic drivers, perhaps?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProDigit

Normally if you connect only the reader to your USB port, and that USB port is the only port used in the USB hub of the pc, your pc should give 5V 500mA output.

Not necessarily - could, but not should - See the Battery Charging Spec v1.0 Spec and Battery Charging Adopters Agreement for details.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProDigit

I believe that just applying the right voltage to the right pins,with enough powerful poweradaptor should charge your batteries.
The reason being that there is no battery data transferred over USB connection

Yes, but only as long as the "right voltage to the right pins" matches the requirements of the Sony (which might or might not be what the spec requires, as I think the spec was agreed after the 505 was designed.)

'Should' notwithstanding, the fact is that in practice, at least in my experience & other reports, 505's don't charge from your basic "wall-wart" USB chargers...

ProDigit · 10-22-2008, 03:52 PM

Well,hopefully we'll see it soon enough,and I will be the first one to try it out then !

(Still waiting on my bid to come through)

Roamor · 10-26-2008, 01:19 PM

It's a shame that B&H won't accept Paypal...

Quote:

We accept PayPal payments (via our website only) provided that the shipping address is a PayPal confirmed address. PayPal is accepted for U.S., Canada & UK customers only.

The only other option would be a creditcard, which I don't have unfortunatly (offtopic: It has always puzzled me why you would want to buy something with borrowed money). I'm afraid I have to wait for Sony to release the 700 in the Netherlands...

tompe · 10-26-2008, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roamor

It's a shame that B&H won't accept Paypal...

The only other option would be a creditcard, which I don't have unfortunatly (offtopic: It has always puzzled me why you would want to buy something with borrowed money). I'm afraid I have to wait for Sony to release the 700 in the Netherlands...

Use a debit card then were you pay directly.

dhbailey · 10-26-2008, 04:47 PM

Use a credit card and pay the bill entirely before the due date -- that way there's no interest, and it's the same as paying cash, only you get more protection and if the shipment is incorrect and the vendor won't fix it you have the credit card company to help you or reverse the charges. Plus, using a credit card often extends the manufacturer's warranty.

With debit cards, you are out the money immediately with very little recourse to get it back if the deal goes bad.

Roamor · 10-27-2008, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhbailey

With debit cards, you are out the money immediately with very little recourse to get it back if the deal goes bad.

I'm not familiar with debitcards either, but isn't that what Paypal does, minus the monthly fees?

I just think it's unfortunate that B&H only seems to "trust" Paypal within USA, Canada and UK. Oh Well, life goes on.

NatCh · 10-27-2008, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roamor

I'm not familiar with debitcards either, but isn't that what Paypal does, minus the monthly fees?

Not precisely. If you link your PayPal account to a bank account it acts as a debit mechanism, pulling the funds straight from that linked bank account. If I recall correctly (it's been a while since I did mine) that's part of the "confirmation" they're talking about.

HarryT · 10-27-2008, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatCh

Not precisely. If you link your PayPal account to a bank account it acts as a debit mechanism, pulling the funds straight from that linked bank account. If I recall correctly (it's been a while since I did mine) that's part of the "confirmation" they're talking about.

That's correct - you link it to a bank account, and have a credit card as a "backup" for it. PayPal makes a request for the funds from the bank account, but if the request is refused, it charges the card instead.

Roamor · 10-27-2008, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

That's correct - you link it to a bank account, and have a credit card as a "backup" for it. PayPal makes a request for the funds from the bank account, but if the request is refused, it charges the card instead.

Maybe Paypal works different in different countries? Might explain why they only 'do' UK, USA and Canada.

Here, it works like this. No credit card needed; just a bankaccount from which you send some money to Paypal. This is then stored on your account, until you spend it.

DaleDe · 10-27-2008, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

That's correct - you link it to a bank account, and have a credit card as a "backup" for it. PayPal makes a request for the funds from the bank account, but if the request is refused, it charges the card instead.

Actually I generally change my purchase to ding the credit card instead of my bank account. This is an option when you make the purchase.

Dale

10-22-2008, 11:11 AM	#20
ProDigit Karmaniac Posts: 2,553 Karma: 11499146 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Miami FL Device: PRS-505, Jetbook, + Mini, +Color, Astak Ez Reader Pro, PPW1, Aura H2O	Then let me ask you why one is able to charge the device on a pc? You'll notice that it doesn't matter what OS you have on the PC, even one that doesn't recognize the device, it should still be charging; unless you have multiple USB devices connected and the powerdraw of the reader would be too great to be supported by the USB port. Normally if you connect only the reader to your USB port, and that USB port is the only port used in the USB hub of the pc, your pc should give 5V 500mA output. This could drop to 300mA, 100mA, or even lower for standard data transfer only,when there are more than 1 device connected to the USB HUB. On standard a desktop PC has 2 USB HUBs (differ with every pc), often one in the front connected to the cardreader and front USB plugs, and one in the back, often connected to 4 or 6 USB ports. Laptops usually only have 1 (connected) USB HUB. A motherboard may have other USB hubs,or room for more hubs, but they're not always connected to a port. That's one of the limitations there are to USB HUBs(the more you attach, the less power available). According to me,the device does not need to connect to the pc sending data, the PC should automatically detect how much power the USB device draws. and if it's more than a USB port can provide, on old computers, the computer would hard reset;and on newer it'd just provide the mA it can provide to the device. If the device, independantly of the computer knows that there is insufficient power available on the powerlines, it would shut down the charging process, and like you say,just open a channel for file or data transfert,or in case of an unsupported OS, it would open a channel which isn't replied by the OS, so you won't really be able to do anything with that channel. If there is enough power available the device starts charging. I don't know if fast charging is supported over the USB connection, but slow charging definately is. If you don't believe me, then try out if you can find a USB extension cord and cut the data channel from the cord,it should still allow the reader to charge (normally)... D+ & D- = datachannels. I believe that just applying the right voltage to the right pins,with enough powerful poweradaptor should charge your batteries. The reason being that there is no battery data transferred over USB connection Last edited by ProDigit; 10-22-2008 at 11:14 AM.

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10-21-2008, 06:51 PM	#16
dhbailey Guru Posts: 604 Karma: 733 Join Date: Mar 2007 Device: HP iPAQ211 / PRS 500, 700 and 505	Are you saying that anything which uses a USB-mini port automatically uses the same voltage? I have a bluetooth earpiece which came with its own power adapter and uses the USB-mini jack but doesn't have anything to do with the USB port on my computer. Is this some sort of standard that I didn't know about? Cool! As for the PSP-adapter, yes I know it works because I interchangeably charge my reader and PSP from two different chargers, one which came with the PRS500 and one which came with the PSP.

10-21-2008, 07:12 PM	#17
gwynevans Wizzard Posts: 1,402 Karma: 2000000 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: UK Device: iPad 2, iPhone 6s, Kindle Voyage & Kindle PaperWhite	USB is a standard voltage (5V) but you might find that 'dumb' chargers don't charge the Sony Reader via the USB port, although they will via the other (round) charger port.

10-22-2008, 03:52 PM	#22
ProDigit Karmaniac Posts: 2,553 Karma: 11499146 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Miami FL Device: PRS-505, Jetbook, + Mini, +Color, Astak Ez Reader Pro, PPW1, Aura H2O	Well,hopefully we'll see it soon enough,and I will be the first one to try it out then ! (Still waiting on my bid to come through)

10-26-2008, 04:47 PM	#25
dhbailey Guru Posts: 604 Karma: 733 Join Date: Mar 2007 Device: HP iPAQ211 / PRS 500, 700 and 505	Use a credit card and pay the bill entirely before the due date -- that way there's no interest, and it's the same as paying cash, only you get more protection and if the shipment is incorrect and the vendor won't fix it you have the credit card company to help you or reverse the charges. Plus, using a credit card often extends the manufacturer's warranty. With debit cards, you are out the money immediately with very little recourse to get it back if the deal goes bad.

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