Indesign to fixed layout epub very slow

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by JohannesM

Thank you for the suggestion. The thing is, that the PNGs get created automatically by exporting from Indesign - I already have all of the formulas and special cases as *.eps files. It's a conversion of already existing printed textbook, which was originally designed in Indesign - there are around 8000 of them, so it doesn't seem too reasonable to replace them with svg-s manually.

Is there a significant performance boost by using svg instead of png? If I have to do it, I'd really rather know that it would help.

I guess another thing that could be done would be to re-do everything in Sigil, just design it in Indesign, now that I have all formatting design questions solved. But again, I'd really rather do it only if I know that I cannot use Indesign's exported epub somehow, this issue seems kind of silly.

EPS can be converted to SVG in an automated fashion with the open source utilities epstopdf and pdf2svg. Unfornately neither one is particularly unix pipe friendly so the conversion needs to be spread over commands.

epstopdf file.eps
will make file.pdf
or you can use the --outfile option for any output file name you like

pdf2svg pdffile svgfile
will convert the PDF file to an SVG file.

[JSWolf]

Is there a way to go EPS > SVG? I don't trust going EPS > SVG with bitmap in the middle.

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Is there a way to go EPS > SVG? I don't trust going EPS > SVG with bitmap in the middle.

Vector in the EPS becomes vector in the PDF becomes vector in the SVG

The is no ImageMagick vector to raster monkey business.

Not much can be done about any raster already in the EPS.

[JohannesM]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Is there a way to go EPS > SVG? I don't trust going EPS > SVG with bitmap in the middle.

I read that it is be possible with Inkscape - also tested and it works.

Ghostscript needs to be installed and environment paths set (on Windows)

Command line: inkscape "input_filename.eps" --export-plain-svg="target_filename.svg"

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by JohannesM

I read that it is be possible with Inkscape - also tested and it works.

Ghostscript needs to be installed and environment paths set (on Windows)

Command line: inkscape "input_filename.eps"--export-plain-svg="target_filename.svg"

That sounds like the cleanest solution if it works for you. I didn't know inscape has a command line interface.

By the way, according to: http://www.inkscapeforum.com/viewtop...t=797&start=25 inkscape is calling ghostscript's ps2pdf, which is different from pstopdf but is similar.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by KevinH

Yes, a page per file. That said, why does InDesign not simply position an entire text line or text box instead of positioning every single word?

Because it's fixed-layout. You haven't lived until you've tried to deep-dive a fixed-layout ePUB from INDD, especially one like this.

The only way forward that I see is to SIGNIFICANTLY clean up the HTML and the CSS, so that all the unnecessary cruft that is usually exported is eliminated, and conforming the html elements that don't need their own names, etc.

I realize that this next comment will (likely) be unhelpful--but I wouldn't do this book in FXL, either. If you've used images for the myriad formulae, then it's unnecessary. It's only necessary for math/science textbooks, when you are using formulae, or MathML, etc., rather than images. Once you have images--why use FXL?

I'm sure you'll respond that that's what the client wants; we deal with this all the time. I usually take a pdf of the book and put it on their smartphone, and then ask them exactly how many people are going to want to read this tome of magnificence, one pinch-zoom/pan/scan at a time, and that typically cures them of such an idea.

My own OT rant about FXL:

Spoiler:

Honestly, while FXL has its place, and its uses, in many ways, I wish it had never come to fruition. I'm sick to death of having people show up with their books, INSISTING that they have to have FXL, when there's absolutely, positively NO good reason for it, and many good reasons NOT TO.

Hitch

[JohannesM]

Originally Posted by Hitch

The only way forward that I see is to SIGNIFICANTLY clean up the HTML and the CSS, so that all the unnecessary cruft that is usually exported is eliminated, and conforming the html elements that don't need their own names, etc.

It seems easier to re-do it completely in Sigil and keep control over the source code - some of the styling choices in Indesign do not translate into html and css but rather it creates a png to show in the background - so any small changes in elements' locations (which will undoubtedly happen if I get to cleaning up the html and css) will misalign with the background.

I realize that this next comment will (likely) be unhelpful--but I wouldn't do this book in FXL, either. If you've used images for the myriad formulae, then it's unnecessary. It's only necessary for math/science textbooks, when you are using formulae, or MathML, etc., rather than images. Once you have images--why use FXL?

I'm sure you'll respond that that's what the client wants; we deal with this all the time. I usually take a pdf of the book and put it on their smartphone, and then ask them exactly how many people are going to want to read this tome of magnificence, one pinch-zoom/pan/scan at a time, and that typically cures them of such an idea.

It's not only 'what the client wants'. With textbooks the main goal I guess is to be able to carry around only a tablet/iPad (and not smartphone) and have all the textbooks there not several different books. For teaching purposes it would still be "page 388" or exercise 778 - and each student would see it exactly the same, regardless of their reader format. For which usually pdf-s would suffice I guess. FXL epub is in some ways very similar to pdfs if you don't use any fancy features.

As for the rant - it's interesting that where web started going more responsive and dynamic, conforming to the device capabilities, then for fxl epub it's the exact opposite - going to fixed layout, rigid, non-dynamic.

[HarryT]

Why not just use PDF, in that case? Way easier to create, can be read universally, and you should be able to get a PDF that's far smaller than 40MB! I'm rather partial to reference material in PDF format, I must admit. I find them very comfortable to read on my iPad, and have a great many such books.

[jhowell]

Another advantage of PDF is that it would allow the textbook to be published on Amazon if desired. Amazon only accepts specific types of books (children's books and comics) in fixed layout, not textbooks.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by jhowell

Another advantage of PDF is that it would allow the textbook to be published on Amazon if desired. Amazon only accepts specific types of books (children's books and comics) in fixed layout, not textbooks.

Presumably Amazon would convert it to "Print Replica" format in such a case - PDF in a Kindle wrapper? I've bought a number of "Print Replica" books from Amazon precisely because it's easy to get the original PDF out of them to read on my iPad.

[dwig]

Originally Posted by Hitch

[I]...

My own OT rant about FXL:
...
Hitch

I agree with the rant. FXL ePubs and reflowable PDFs are both like putting lipstick on a pig.

If you need/want a fixed layout then use PDF. It is vastly better supported by both creation and reading apps. If you need reflowable text, use ePub, preferably ePub2 if you need/want wide support.

[JohannesM]

Originally Posted by dwig

I agree with the rant. FXL ePubs and reflowable PDFs are both like putting lipstick on a pig.

If you need/want a fixed layout then use PDF. It is vastly better supported by both creation and reading apps. If you need reflowable text, use ePub, preferably ePub2 if you need/want wide support.

Some interactivity doesn't work that well when reading pdf in ibooks for instance. Simple things like showing-hiding elements on click etc. For example showing and hiding answers of a maths exercise. Hyperlinks do work though.

It's looks like everything is a little imperfect - pdf would work well for simple displaying but fxl epub3 is more programmable for interactivity.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by JohannesM

Some interactivity doesn't work that well when reading pdf in ibooks for instance. Simple things like showing-hiding elements on click etc. For example showing and hiding answers of a maths exercise. Hyperlinks do work though.

It's looks like everything is a little imperfect - pdf would work well for simple displaying but fxl epub3 is more programmable for interactivity.

Stupid question:

Are you ONLY making an ePUB of this? Your client thinks that he'll be able to dictate that everybody has to have an iPad, only, for the classroom--is that the idea?

Jhowell wrote:

Amazon only accepts specific types of books (children's books and comics) in fixed layout, not textbooks.

Well, that's not quite right--you can use Textbook format, for fxl textbooks, which is, effectively, print replica.

I keep running into this "idea," for lack of a better word (delusion?) that somehow, teachers are going to have this Apple-dominated wee world, where EVERYBODY is going to have an iPad, so, that's how they're going to make the "textbooks." I guess it's not dramatically different than expecting kids to buy textbooks, but at a thou-plus a pop, it's not QUITE the same. I know that I'd be pretty damn pissed if some prof "decided" that my kid needed a thousand dollar toy.

Spoiler:

And before everybody leaps to defend iPads, they are CLEARLY a tool for consumption, not really creation. I have one, for testing purposes,
and sure, it's nice, but I most certainly don't use it for any type of actual work. Yes, yes, I know, some people attach keyboards to them, etc.,
but the vast majority of real, live people that I see out in the wild are watching movies, playing games, reading social media, etc.

Hitch

[JohannesM]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Stupid question:
Are you ONLY making an ePUB of this? Your client thinks that he'll be able to dictate that everybody has to have an iPad, only, for the classroom--is that the idea?

The printed book itself exists and will exist in the future as well obviously. And epub is not limited to iPads, I see it more like an opportunity to sell digitized textbooks to students (parents) who have the means to use any device they like.

It's diversifying means not replacing oldschool books. That's why I'm dealing with indesign - the printed book has already been designed and laid out, now I'm just customising it to another readable format. I doubt the publisher (client) would've made the decision to digitize the textbook if the demand wasn't there.

[HarryT]

But how many devices and apps support FXL?