What's an Adverb?

[gmw]

Originally Posted by GrannyGrump

When I was a child in school (back when dinosaurs roamed), we were taught NOT to use a phrase such as "feel bad". Teacher would harrumph, and correct us to say "feel badly" [...]

As far as I can find, "feel badly" is still considered the more strictly correct form, with "feel bad" being described variously as informal or colloquialism depending on the reference used. (Which is not to say that "feel bad" would be inappropriate in fiction, but a writer might be excused for limiting this use to dialogue.)

arjaybe, "good" is acknowledged in the OED as an adverb, "bad" is not except in colloquial use. The adverb "goodly" does not (in the OED) have a sense appropriate to "feel goodly". dictionary.com describes "good" as an adverb as informal use (as it does "bad" as an adverb) and does not acknowledge the existence of "goodly" as an adverb at all, although it does acknowledge "ungoodly".

All very curious. Like many things with language it is not a matter of what makes sense but what has become accepted use.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by arjaybe

O
I can see how "badly" is an adverb for "feels." But if "feel" is a verb, I don't see how "bad," when modifying it, isn't an adverb.

It's not an adverb - "bad" is the object of the verb "feel". "He felt bad" is no different grammatically to "He felt pain" or "He felt anger"; ie, it's a description of what you are feeling, not how you are feeling it.

[gmw]

Harry, it does not seem quite so clear cut. Yes, in the OED there is no adverb "bad" ("feel bad" falls under the heading of adjective and described as colloquialism). Note, however, that dictionary.com and Merriam-Webster both offer "bad" as an adverb (dictionary.com describe it as informal use).

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by gmw

Harry, it does not seem quite so clear cut. Yes, in the OED there is no adverb "bad" ("feel bad" falls under the heading of adjective and described as colloquialism). Note, however, that dictionary.com and Merriam-Webster both offer "bad" as an adverb (dictionary.com describe it as informal use).

I'm not saying that bad can't be an (informal) adverb, just that it isn't one in this particular case.

Eg, if you say "He ran bad in yesterday's race", that would be an adverbial usage ("bad" used in place of the more correct "badly").

However, saying "he felt bad" is not modifying the verb "feel" (as, for example, "He felt briefly guilty, but it soon passed", is - the word "briefly" is an adverb there), but is describing what is being felt, and is thus a simple direct object of the verb "feel". It's being used as an adjective here, not an adverb.

[issybird]

I have to disagree on "feel bad." As I was taught and still think correct, "feel" in this instance is intransitive and "bad" is an adjective. Feel in the transitive use refers to the tactile sense. In any case, bad as an adjective certainly can't be used as an object, which is the work of a noun.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by issybird

I have to disagree on "feel bad." As I was taught and still think correct, "feel" in this instance is intransitive and "bad" is an adjective. Feel in the transitive use refers to the tactile sense. In any case, bad as an adjective certainly can't be used as an object, which is the work of a noun.

Adjectives can be - and often are - used in place of nouns as direct objects. Eg consider the sentence "I like red better than blue". What are "red" and "blue" in that sentence?

Would you consider there to be a grammatical difference between the sentences "I feel angry" and "I feel anger"? Both "anger" and "angry" are being used as the object of a transitive verb, although one is a noun and the other an adjective.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Adjectives can be - and often are - used in place of nouns as direct objects. Eg consider the sentence "I like red better than blue". What are "red" and "blue" in that sentence?

Would you consider there to be a grammatical difference between the sentences "I feel angry" and "I feel anger"? Both "anger" and "angry" are being used as the object of a transitive verb, although one is a noun and the other an adjective.

"Red" and "blue" are nouns in that sentence, of course. As you said upthread, the same word can have a different function depending on usage and usage determines the category.

Yes, there's a grammatical difference in the two sentences. In "I feel angry," "feel" is intransitive, while in "I feel anger," "feel" is transitive. I was being a bit facetious upthread when I referred to the transitive "feel" as referring to the tactile sense, as of course it can be used in the emotional sense, but only so long as it has an object.

The difference is between "I feel how" and "I feel what. "Feel" as a transitive verb requires an object. Objects by definition are nouns, even if adapted from the adjective: good, bad, beautiful and so forth, frequently but not necessarily identified as a noun by the addition of "the."

It's akin to the difference between participles and gerunds, which are formed in the same manner and are identical, but where usage determines the category of the word.

[HarryT]

I beg to differ with you, I'm afraid. To my mind, adjectives can certainly be direct objects.

At least we are in agreement that in the sentence "he felt bad", the word "bad" is an adjective and not an adverb, although we disagree whether or not it should be considered an object.

[sjfan]

Originally Posted by GrannyGrump

When I was a child in school (back when dinosaurs roamed), we were taught NOT to use a phrase such as "feel bad". Teacher would harrumph, and correct us to say "feel badly"

Teacher was likely wrong, unless you had a neurological disorder or were wearing gloves or something like that.

“Feel bad” and “feel badly” mean two different things. If you just received anesthesia, but it's starting to wear off, you might correctly say that you feel badly, in much the same way that a myopic person might say “I see badly”.

But if you're running a fever, nauseous*, and aching, then it’s better to say that you feel bad.

http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/edu...d-versus-badly discusses in more detail

*Yes, “feeling sick to your stomach” is a correct meaning of nauseous.

[sjfan]

Originally Posted by issybird

I have to disagree on "feel bad." As I was taught and still think correct, "feel" in this instance is intransitive and "bad" is an adjective. Feel in the transitive use refers to the tactile sense. In any case, bad as an adjective certainly can't be used as an object, which is the work of a noun.

“Feel” in this context is a linking verb, “bad” is a predicative adjective.

[BookCat]

Originally Posted by sjfan

One thing to look for is that adverbs often (but not always) end with -ly, as in HarryT's “quickly.” Not all words that end with -ly are adverbs, either (“We hung the holly for Christmas”). But it's a hint.

Adverbs can modify verbs as HarryT says. They can also modify adjectives (“You are mostly right”), other adverbs (“He walked quite slowly”), phrases/sentences, and even nouns and noun phrases (“There is a shortage internationally of protein for animal feeds”).

If you're having trouble pinning them down, you can take solace in the fact that modern grammarians view “adverb” as more of a catch-all category than a strict part of speech, as they really serve a number of different purposes that are lumped together. To some extent they can be viewed simply as non-adjectival modifiers, and it can be easy to conflate the two:

• Even camels need to drink. (“Even” is an adverb)
• Even numbers are divisible by two. (“Even” is an adjective)

As Wiki says: Adverbs typically express manner, place, time, frequency, degree, level of certainty, etc., answering questions such as how?, in what way?, when?, where?, and to what extent?

WATCH THE SPLIT INFINITIVES!!

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by sjfan

“Feel” in this context is a linking verb, “bad” is a predicative adjective.

Well, at least we're all agreed that "bad" is an adjective, but I remain unconvinced that this is a copulative usage.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by BookCat

WATCH THE SPLIT INFINITIVES!!

Really, the idea that split infinitives are undesirable went out a century ago. It only came into being in the first place when misguided Victorian grammarians tried to force English into the straitjacket of Latin grammar (a very silly idea) and decided that, since infinitives can't be split in Latin (because they're a single word), they shouldn't be split in English either. English is not Latin.

[sjfan]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Really, the idea that split infinitives are undesirable went out a century ago. It only came into being in the first place when misguided Victorian grammarians tried to force English into the straitjacket of Latin grammar (a very silly idea) and decided that, since infinitives can't be split in Latin (because they're a single word), they shouldn't be split in English either. English is not Latin.

It’s amazing how many misguided grammar and usage rules were created from about 1700-1900 that were taught in school but never reflected actual English usage. Robert Baker’s attempt at creating an arbitrary distinction between “less” and “fewer” is still taught as gospel in many schools.

False prescriptivism is a hobgoblin.

[arjaybe]

Holy crap! I've poked a nest of grammarians and now I've got a bunch more words to look up. I have a feeling that English is too big and messy for any codex. I know it's too vast for my undisciplined brain, anyway.-)