Boox Max 2 - poor quality and problem with returns to ereader-store.de

[mdp]

Originally Posted by forestfelix

No, it's clearly sarcasm. It's obvious from the E-Mail that the seller assumes Marcos has received the Max 2, therefore it's a rhetorical question. [...]
If functions that were described on the product page are not working, the product is not as described. The changing of the return policy wording also seems inappropriate to me.

As I wrote I would not have read it like that, but I get it from the rest of the exchange here that the communications were a lot... So...

The function described on the product page that does not seem to be working is that of the monitor, which «often doesn't work (it simply says 'failed')» to the OP. But I am telling you, I did not have that experience (see my posts yesterday). In that case, he may have a defective device. But he is probably not interested in having that single detail fixed...

[mdp]

Originally Posted by marcosscriven

It's not intended to be funny - why would think that it is? If @booxtor is serious about informing his customers, ought he not include a clear description of the limitations?

That is your responsibility as a customer, to find information about products before buying them.
You wrote earlier: «I was unfamiliar with this forum - if it had been linked to from their product page, I would not have purchased.»: it is certainly not the reseller's responsibility to tell you where to find information.

[marcosscriven]

Originally Posted by mdp

That is your responsibility as a customer, to find information about products before buying them.
You wrote earlier: «I was unfamiliar with this forum - if it had been linked to from their product page, I would not have purchased.»: it is certainly not the reseller's responsibility to tell you where to find information.

Your opinion seems to be, essentially, caveat emptor. I don't share your opinion.

[oranges]

Originally Posted by Booxtor

- Battery discharges quite quickly if you use the device as second monitor. It is recommended to connect to a 2A USB charger if you are going to use the device in this mode.

i have experienced otherwise actually -- i turned on the brand new Max2, used it for maybe 20 minutes, then left it idle. afterwards 5 to 6 hours later it was at 50% battery.

Originally Posted by Booxtor

- automatic power off after particular time of inactivity is normal if you set it like this in the settings. Additionally Max2 tries to power off if the battery charge is too low in order to save the battery from too deep discharge. It is also normal for Li Po powered devices.

my N96 normally will auto power off, but i noticed the Max2 actually just kept at the same screen. i did already configure the power management features, and am familiar with it since this isn't my first Boox. something is definitely weird.

[mdp]

For the people non involved in the specific case, I wanted to give the info I can about the points that OP raised.

> Device turns off when you place it on a music stand
My Max2 is sitting on a polyurethane stand of the few I had built for ergonomy to support my devices: the power button does not feel that contact. I also have stands that fold and touch the base of the device in limited points, they would also of course not touch the power button (which is at the bottom of the device).
If I had to place it on a flat hard surface (like the music stand above), and not considering tricks such as a bit of foam as a buffer, I would place the device upside down and set the software application on "reverse portrait".

> Monitor function often doesn't work (it simply says 'failed')
Not experienced that myself, I got it recognized as a "Toshiba" monitor immediately, on more Operating Systems. But I cannot test on more desktop devices (more source graphics cards).

> Even when it does work, latency is very high, and using a mouse or scrolling is almost impossible
As expressed in other threads, it works better than other solutions; for the mouse, which I found usable if not fully comfortable, although I am yet to try a real work session, I recommend trying an "accessibility mouse pointer trail" option.

> English language in the software has numerous errors
Well, that's probably something very easy to fix since it does not require troubleshooting. Sending corrections to the Onyx service desks. Their problem will be deciding the best form.

> Battery charge goes down extremely quickly
This is the first Onyx firmware using Android 6 - for this alone, I myself expected rough edges. Since they are software related, I personally did not care much: software can be fixed.

> Device completely shuts down after a short period (presumably in an attempt to mitigate its extremely poor power management), and takes over 30 seconds to turn on again.
This is a configuration that is up to the user to set. I set it in the set-up after the first boot.

> Screen is surprisingly glossy, meaning it can't easily be used in bright light.
As written earlier, the spots of light that I see on the Max2 - now in interiors - are similar to those I see on the MaxCarta, which I used in the open air extensively.

[Question Mark]

Originally Posted by forestfelix

No, it's clearly sarcasm. It's obvious from the E-Mail that the seller assumes Marcos has received the Max 2, therefore it's a rhetorical question.

Sorry, but I don't get that interpretation at all.

On occasion, I have had other vendors ship me the wrong item entirely. Mistakes happen.

So, to me, it just seems to be that the vendor is attempting to confirm that the buyer did indeed receive a Max 2 and not some other device by mistake.

I do not read any sarcasm in the quoted post.

[marcosscriven]

Originally Posted by Question Mark

Sorry, but I don't get that interpretation at all.

On occasion, I have had other vendors ship me the wrong item entirely. Mistakes happen.

So, to me, it just seems to be that the vendor is attempting to confirm that the buyer did indeed receive a Max 2 and not some other device by mistake.

I do not read any sarcasm in the quoted post.

Firstly, if you got the wrong product you would simply say so, right?

Secondly, as Booxtor says, that was part of a thread where we were already clearly talking about the Max 2.

[Booxtor]

Originally Posted by marcosscriven

Booxtor (aka Waldemar)

Can you:

1. Answer each of the bullet points I raised at the beginning of this thread
2. Add these issues to your product description on your website
3. Explain why you go about removing terms from your agreements, just as a customer is trying to act upon them?

1. Why don't you provide correct link to our terms and conditions: https://ereader-store.de/en/content/...ditions-of-use

We didn't change anything on it!

2. In your email you mentioned you have not received product as described and used it as reason for complain, therefor I just wanted to ensure that you indeed received correct product, which you have ordered (Max2 in your case).

Which part of description did not not match to the delivered product?

ONYX BOOX MAX2 PRO

With the huge 13.3 "E Ink Carta Flexible Screen

A really fantastic big screen with ambient light reflection. Very sharp with the resolution of 2200x1650 pixels and high contrast (15:1). No glare or reflection. Energy efficient. Your eyes will thank you. The best way to read your documents in original A4 or US Letter format. E-Ink screen uses only ambient light reflection. No flicker, no glare, no reflection, even in strong sunlight you will be able to read your documents easily.

Some of the main advantages of the Mobius screen:
Very light weight!
A 13.3 "EPD Mobius weighs just 63g, whereas an EPD screen made of glass in same size would weigh a full 144g.

Lowest power consumption
An EINK Mobius screen has lowest power consumption level in the eReader industry. Unlike other technologies, an e-ink screen is bi-stable, which means that it does not need power to hold an image or text page.

Resolution:
2200x1650 pixelsGrayscale: 16 stepsContrast: 15: 1

Electromagnetic (WACOM) and capacitive dual touch screen.
With the supplied stylus, you can draw on the screen just as you would draw and write notes in your PDF documents with a real pen.
WACOM digitizer ensures precise lines.

In addition, thanks to capacitive layer, you can control the Max2 with your fingers like ordinary Tablet PC.

Mechanical buttons
Four mechanical buttons: Menu, Back, Next Page and Previous Page.Very easy to use without touching the screen.

1.6 GHz quad-core processor
Latest high-performance quad-core processor enables even faster computation of complex rendering processes and makes working with your documents very comfortable.

Android 6.0 OS
Take advantage of the huge range of software offerings that are compatible with this operating system.

HDMI connection
The HDMI port implemented in this device allows you to connect your MAX2 PRO to a PC and use the device as a secondary monitor. So you can take care of your eyes additionally.

Built-in Speaker and microphone
For your music and voice recording. 3.5mm audio interface. Support text-to-speech function, playing music in the background, audio books.

High speed WIFI + Bluetooth 4.0
Stronger WIFI antenna, more stable connection and faster download speed. Surf your favorite pages or upload files or ebooks quickly and conveniently. With integrated Bluetooth 4.0 technology, you can transfer your data without WIFI or use an external keyboard, pedals or audio devices. Efficient, fast, comfortable.

2GB RAM + 32G memory
2GB RAM + 32G internal memory - no more worries about memory. More apps, big files, everything you want on your device.

Multi-format support
Onyx Boox MAX2 PRO supports the most common formats:
PDF EPUB TXT MOBI CHM DJVU HTML RTF FB2 DOC PDB etc. Text formats
JPG PNG BMP etc. image formats
MP3 WAV etc. audio formats

other special formats can be supported with third-party applications.

Mobility
7.5 mm thin, 550g weight, despite its close to A4 size it is still comfortable to handle - both in the hands and in the bag.

Large capacity battery
With the 4100mAH lithium-polymer battery, you can achieve about 4 weeks of standby time.

Delivery:
Onyx Boox Max2 PRO
Wacom E/M Stylus
USB cable
Micro HDMI to HDMI cable
Protective sleeve



Just curios, what exactly in you opinion is wrong in the description?

[Question Mark]

Originally Posted by marcosscriven

Firstly, if you got the wrong product you would simply say so, right?

If you were aware that you got the wrong product, you would most likely say so. It would be strange to do otherwise.

However, if a Max Carta had been mistakenly put into a Max 2 box, the buyer might initially think that they had received a Max 2 unit. To rule out that possibility, it would be necessary to ask the customer if they did indeed receive the correct device.

If the Max 2 is similar enough in appearance to a Max Carta, it might even be necessary to go into the settings menu and look in the section where it says "about device" or something similar.

Originally Posted by marcosscriven

Secondly, as Booxtor says, that was part of a thread where we were already clearly talking about the Max 2.

I can only go by what you have chosen to share with us. From what you have chosen to share, I see no sarcasm.

[marcosscriven]

Originally Posted by Booxtor

Why don't you provide correct link to our terms and conditions: https://ereader-store.de/en/content/...ditions-of-use

We didn't change anything on it!

You absolutely did change the terms. I already described this in the original post, but here it is again:

Google cache of your returns page from 24th December: https://webcache.googleusercontent.c...&ct=clnk&gl=uk

Your current returns page: https://ereader-store.de/en/content/6-returns

The diff, again, is:

diff old-return-wording new-return-wording
21c21,23
< Please note that shipping and possible payment fees are the client’s responsibility, except if the product does not conform to the description of said product (the client is responsible for any damage done during the shipping of the returned goods).
---
> Please note that shipping and possible payment fees are the client’s responsibility. The client is responsible for any damage done during the shipping of the returned goods.
>
>

You removed the part about postage not being payable by the customer if the product does not conform to the description.

Or are you saying I am lying, and hacked into Google's cache servers?!

[marcosscriven]

>-Using of Max2 in a book stand - if you want it just rotate the screen 180° and the power button don't affect your work in a book stand any more.

So you're saying I should use the product upside down, unlike the photos on your product description?

> - Using as a monitor - is possible, but the customer needs to get used to some limitations (like slower mouse pointer) and also occasional problems during first setup.

So you're admitting to a limitation? Why not add that to the description on your site?

>-to expect perfect english translation in a Chinese product is a little bit far from reality. I also asked the customer to point me to the text parts with the problems in translation, which we could improve - he did not reply to it.

For a product I'm paying >£700 for, I shouldn't expect for the software to be intelligible in my native language, and in the language which it is stated to support?

> - Battery discharges quite quickly if you use the device as second monitor. It is recommended to connect to a 2A USB charger if you are going to use the device in this mode.

My comment about power draining does not pertain solely to usage in monitor mode.

> - automatic power off after particular time of inactivity is normal if you set it like this in the settings. Additionally Max2 tries to power off if the battery charge is too low in order to save the battery from too deep discharge. It is also normal for Li Po powered devices.

It's not normal for an ereader to completely shutdown, no. Kindles and so forth merely go into standby, and last weeks if not months. The Max 2 completely shuts down. Coming back to it, even after a few minutes, essentially means starting the operating system from cold. You're saying I could change this in the settings, but that would surely just mean the battery would run down even faster than it does already.

>-Glossiness of the screen is same as Max or other modern EINK screens. Even white paper has particular glossiness.

Again, no. Side by side with my Kindle, the reflective nature of the Max 2 is markedly greater.

[Booxtor]

Originally Posted by marcosscriven

You absolutely did change the terms. I already described this in the original post, but here it is again:

Google cache of your returns page from 24th December: https://webcache.googleusercontent.c...&ct=clnk&gl=uk

Your current returns page: https://ereader-store.de/en/content/6-returns ...

You are linking our information page but not page with terms and conditions.
Please take a look at correct page.

You didn't reply to my question, what is wrong with our product description?
What in the description let you to assume you did a mistake buying our new product based on misdirecting information?
If you can point me to it, I will accept to pay your shipping costs. Otherwise you need to accept our terms and conditions.

[marcosscriven]

Originally Posted by Booxtor

You are linking our information page but not page with terms and conditions.
Please take a look at correct page.

Why do you persist in saying your returns page is the not the 'correct page'.

Why do you have a returns page?

Why are you refusing to say why the wording changed?

Clearly, that wording pertains to my situation, and you have changed it.

[marcosscriven]

Originally Posted by Booxtor

You didn't reply to my question, what is wrong with our product description?
What in the description let you to assume you did a mistake buying our new product based on misdirecting information?
If you can point me to it, I will accept to pay your shipping costs. Otherwise you need to accept our terms and conditions.

Here you go:

>No glare or reflection.

Not true

>Energy efficient.

Not true

>no reflection, even in strong sunlight you will be able to read your documents easily.

Not true

> Lowest power consumption

Not true

> The HDMI port implemented in this device allows you to connect your MAX2 PRO to a PC and use the device as a secondary monitor. So you can take care of your eyes additionally.

Only partly true, if I'm being generous. But the software is flaky so it doesn't work at all sometimes, and the lag is so severe as to make it unusable as a second monitor even when it does.

[mdp]

Just to be sure: before anybody gets ideas, I am not under Onyx' payroll.
(I am not saying I would not like to - simply, I have a job and it is a different job.)

Product is not my product, etc. Just in case anyone misunderstands phrasings.