Dealing with Amazon can be a right pain - Page 2

Timboli · 10-16-2016, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Amazon will never know you've removed the DRM. If that was the case, it would have been posted about on MR and it has not been by anyone.

Perhaps, but they just may not be doing anything with that data yet.

P.S. You may have missed Post #15, as we changed pages, and my second reply came hot on its heels.

Sirtel · 10-16-2016, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timboli

Perhaps, but they just may not be doing anything with that data yet.

So you think they have just been sitting on it for almost 9 years?

I personally think they're perfectly aware people remove DRM from their books, but they don't particularly care, as long as people keep buying from them.

ekbell · 10-16-2016, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirtel

So you think they have just been sitting on it for almost 9 years?

I personally think they're perfectly aware people remove DRM from their books, but they don't particularly care, as long as people keep buying from them.

Considering the number of kindle books I've bought, downloaded onto my Kindle for PC and then removed without even opening them all without a squeak from Amazon.

I don't think Amazon cares what you do with the books you buy.

JSWolf · 10-16-2016, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timboli

Perhaps, but they just may not be doing anything with that data yet.

P.S. You may have missed Post #15, as we changed pages, and my second reply came hot on its heels.

If Amazon cared, we'd know. We'd know big time. It would be posted here and on many tech & author blogs. Just me, we would know and if Amazon knows, they don't care. So don't worry. Just remove the DRM and enjoy knowing your eBooks are safe and you can convert if you ever go to an ePub capable Reader.

Little.Egret · 10-16-2016, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timboli

Seeing as you brought it up.

I was wondering if those of you who are happy to remove DRM have ever considered how easy it would be for Amazon etc to embed an ID in every ebook file that gets sent to you, at the moment it is sent? An ID that is related to you only. It could easily fail to be detected and removed when the DRM is removed.

If they did such, then they could track the movement of the ebook, whenever the device it resides on connects back to their store, during a Sync etc.

Such a idea is in current use, Google [ DRM watermarking ]. Was it the Harry Potter books that used it ?

But the Geographical limits are set by the publisher on uploading to Amazon. They have to certify that their copyright covers them and Amazon cannot override unless their T&C allow, which is unlikely. I recall a self-publisher in Australia who posted here who had somehow managed to mark his book as available in the US or even world-wide but not Australia.

Cinisajoy · 10-16-2016, 04:32 PM

One quick question. Did you buy the first three books before the 4th one was published?
If yes, then there is no reason for Amazon to give you a refund. There was never a guarantee the 4th book would be published. (I have been burned like that by a couple of "authors". )

Now since you have talked to the author, how about asking him for a review copy.

So if I read right, you are using Amazon. Com instead of Amazon.au so you can buy geo-restricted books and now you want Amazon to refund the money on 3 ill-gotten books because you can't buy the 4th that wasn't even published when you bought the first 3.

I gotta give you credit. That is just as good as a lady telling me to make her cheesecake because I bought a cheesecake pan.

robko · 10-16-2016, 04:43 PM

You have some valid points that Amazon CS hasn't been forthcoming and should probably did deeper into what exactly is going on with this book. BUT I have to agree with Cinisajoy. Amazon has is under no obligation (ethical, moral or business wise) to provide you a refund on the first three books. You bought and enjoyed them (obviously). Sure Amazon in this case is failing to provide you the last book. That's a poor business decision on their part because they are missing out on a book sale. But I don't see why they should refund you the 1st 3 parts (especially if the 4th part wasn't published yet when you bought the 1st three).

Little.Egret · 10-16-2016, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

So if I read right, you are using Amazon. Com instead of Amazon.au so you can buy geo-restricted books and now you want Amazon to refund the money on 3 ill-gotten books because you can't buy the 4th that wasn't even published when you bought the first 3.

Nope, the way it is supposed to work is that someone with a address in a country sees the range of books allowed for that country which should be the same as shown by a local Amazon if such exists.

Thus a Swedish resident must use Amazon.com and pay in US dollars but a German resident can use either Amazon.com and pay in US dollars OR Amazon.de (German language) and pay in Euros. The books available should be identical but may miss some available to US residents and add some not available to US residents.

Errors of course may occur.

Cinisajoy · 10-16-2016, 04:51 PM

Is it possible the first 3 were published outside of Kindle Worlds first?

DiapDealer · 10-16-2016, 05:02 PM

I believe Hugh Howey did give writers permission to use his Wool universe even before Kindle Worlds became an official "thing."

Cinisajoy · 10-16-2016, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I believe Hugh Howey did give writers permission to use his Wool universe even before Kindle Worlds became an official "thing."

You are entirely correct.
His fan-fiction is why there is Kindle Worlds.
Off to look at those books.
Looked at the dates. He was either one of the first in KW or he added them later.

It is also highly possible the OP got the first 3 due to a glitch in the system.

Timboli · 10-16-2016, 05:49 PM

Some people obviously don't pay attention to all I write or just cherry pick.

Cinisajoy in particular, you need to fully read what I said, as you have said things that don't tally, and show you don't really understand. Sorry, but it stands out like dog balls, no offense.

Timboli · 10-16-2016, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirtel

So you think they have just been sitting on it for almost 9 years?

I personally think they're perfectly aware people remove DRM from their books, but they don't particularly care, as long as people keep buying from them.

Of course they are perfectly aware, how could they not be.

Collecting data, and then sitting on it for whatever reason, is a perfectly reasonable thing to do.

The fact that DRM removal that was created more than a year ago, still works after a few Kindle updates, proves they aren't currently actively trying to stop it. They've given up, doesn't have the ring of truth to me though.

And who can truly say what the future might bring.

P.S. And we have all heard of people who have had their Kindle wiped, all supposedly unfairly and never a reason given apparently, or rarely so. A wise person shows a measure of caution.

Sirtel · 10-16-2016, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timboli

The fact that DRM removal that was created more than a year ago, still works after a few Kindle updates, proves they aren't currently actively trying to stop it. They've given up, doesn't have the ring of truth to me.

They've not given up, of course. They've never tried to stop it. Yes, it's possible they'll try in the future, but I (and many others) am willing to take that risk. OTOH, the risk that I might lose access to my purchased books because the company I bought them from withdraws my access or simply no longer exists, is unacceptable for me.

And it's not "more than a year" and "a few Kindle updates". The tools have existed for 6-7 years at least, probably longer. And there have been many, many Kindle updates during that time.

latepaul · 10-16-2016, 06:11 PM

Regarding DRM removal and the possibility of an identifying watermark - I'm not concerned about this because I only ever remove DRM for personal use anyway. I don't distribute them. (In the past people have speculated about e.g. a hard-drive being stolen and ebooks uploaded by someone else. I find that far-fetched and will take my chances.)

DRM only ever stops casual sharing really. Unless/until they put chips in our brains there'll always be an analogue hole.

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10-16-2016, 04:32 PM	#21
Cinisajoy Just a Yellow Smiley. Posts: 19,161 Karma: 83862859 Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Texas Device: K4, K5, fire, kobo, galaxy	One quick question. Did you buy the first three books before the 4th one was published? If yes, then there is no reason for Amazon to give you a refund. There was never a guarantee the 4th book would be published. (I have been burned like that by a couple of "authors". ) Now since you have talked to the author, how about asking him for a review copy. So if I read right, you are using Amazon. Com instead of Amazon.au so you can buy geo-restricted books and now you want Amazon to refund the money on 3 ill-gotten books because you can't buy the 4th that wasn't even published when you bought the first 3. I gotta give you credit. That is just as good as a lady telling me to make her cheesecake because I bought a cheesecake pan.

10-16-2016, 04:43 PM	#22
robko Wizard Posts: 2,454 Karma: 5469320 Join Date: Jul 2010 Device: Kobo	You have some valid points that Amazon CS hasn't been forthcoming and should probably did deeper into what exactly is going on with this book. BUT I have to agree with Cinisajoy. Amazon has is under no obligation (ethical, moral or business wise) to provide you a refund on the first three books. You bought and enjoyed them (obviously). Sure Amazon in this case is failing to provide you the last book. That's a poor business decision on their part because they are missing out on a book sale. But I don't see why they should refund you the 1st 3 parts (especially if the 4th part wasn't published yet when you bought the 1st three).

10-16-2016, 04:51 PM	#24
Cinisajoy Just a Yellow Smiley. Posts: 19,161 Karma: 83862859 Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Texas Device: K4, K5, fire, kobo, galaxy	Is it possible the first 3 were published outside of Kindle Worlds first?

10-16-2016, 05:02 PM	#25
DiapDealer Grand Sorcerer Posts: 28,574 Karma: 204127028 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD	I believe Hugh Howey did give writers permission to use his Wool universe even before Kindle Worlds became an official "thing."

10-16-2016, 05:49 PM	#27
Timboli Sharpest Tool On Shelf Posts: 661 Karma: 2587836 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Downunda Device: Kindles, Kobo & Samsung Tablet	Some people obviously don't pay attention to all I write or just cherry pick. Cinisajoy in particular, you need to fully read what I said, as you have said things that don't tally, and show you don't really understand. Sorry, but it stands out like dog balls, no offense.

10-16-2016, 06:11 PM	#30
latepaul Wizard Posts: 1,270 Karma: 10468300 Join Date: Dec 2011 Device: a variety (mostly kindles and kobos)	Regarding DRM removal and the possibility of an identifying watermark - I'm not concerned about this because I only ever remove DRM for personal use anyway. I don't distribute them. (In the past people have speculated about e.g. a hard-drive being stolen and ebooks uploaded by someone else. I find that far-fetched and will take my chances.) DRM only ever stops casual sharing really. Unless/until they put chips in our brains there'll always be an analogue hole.

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