Kindle Oasis: To Buy or Not To Buy

[jbjb]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I know someone who used to have a Kindle Touch but has switched to a PW3. So yes, I do have some experience.

The thing is, what I've been saying about the battery has nothing to do with this being a Kindle. It's just simple battery logic.

If you get say 500 charges from a battery before you start to lost capacity, then the battery in the Oasis will start to lose capacity sooner than a PW3 or Voyage because the battery in the Oasis holds less charge and needs to be charged more often using the batter in the case. So for every full charge you get with a PW3 or Voyage, the Oasis gets 2 charges. So that will bring the battery life of the Oasis to roughly half that of the PW3 or Voyage. This is something that most people do not think of. So basically, you are paying more for a device that has less of a shelf life due to the way the battery designed.

Your 'simple battery logic' is too simple!

Your concern fails to take into account the fact that frequent shallow discharge/recharge cycles are much better for a Li Ion battery than less frequent deep ones. It seems reasonable to suppose that a typical usage pattern for the Oasis would involve it being returned to the cover relatively frequently, leading to shallower cycles and prolonging the life of the battery.

There's also the possibility that the designers of the Oasis could have exploited the dual battery design of the Oasis in ways to further prolong the life of the battery. For example, having the recharging cover readily available could be seen as reducing the need to push the capacity of the device battery to its maximum. Reducing the peak charge level of a LiIon cell dramatically extends its lifetime (e.g. dropping the charge voltage from 4.2V per cell to 4.1 V per cell will typically double the lifetime). I clearly don't know if the designers have actually made such a choice, but there's no reason to assume they haven't.

The claim that the Oasis battery will have a shorter lifetime than other Kindles is just conjecture - unless you have inside information about the design and typical usage patterns I'm not privy to, to present it as a fact is misleading.

[jbjb]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

The question is, whether this possible reduction in battery lifetime will actually kick while the device is in actual use.

If (plucking figures from the air) the Voyage battery lifetime is ten years, and the Oasis is five years, is that really a cause of concern?

Agreed!

Even if it was as low as 5 years, I strongly suspect I'd be itching for a new gadget by that time and would love to have a diminished battery capacity as an excuse!

[NullNix]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I know someone who used to have a Kindle Touch but has switched to a PW3. So yes, I do have some experience.

That's... less than impressive, I'm afraid. I at least was under the false impression that you might know what you're talking about.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The thing is, what I've been saying about the battery has nothing to do with this being a Kindle. It's just simple battery logic.

Nothing is ever simple!

Originally Posted by JSWolf

If you get say 500 charges from a battery before you start to lost capacity

LiPo battery lifetime is not strictly governed by number-of-charges. This particular failure mode is due to plating of lithium metal on the negative electrode; it is dependent on temperature, previous charging level and many other things. It is quite possible to reduce the rate of plating by modifying the charging circuit, and it is plausible to assume that Amazon may have done this for a battery as tiny as this one (though geekmaster's investigations suggest they have not, we could be wrong).

It is in any case true that this failure mode is greatly reduced by charging and discharging in small amounts rather than by doing deep discharges, and that's just the operating profile an Oasis battery sees! (At least, that's what it sees unless you're in the habit of not putting it in the charging cover when not in use, or unless you really do usually read in uninterrupted six-hour stretches).

In practice, though, 'premium' overpriced product or not (even though I own one and love it, I freely admit its price is ridiculous), this is portable consumer electronics. By the time you notice significant battery degradation the thing will probably be overdue for replacement anyway and probably battered-looking too. If you think you'll need it for longer, get an extended warranty and replace the battery right before the end of it, though they'll only do that if the battery is at half capacity by that point and they'll probably do it by replacing the whole Kindle.

[Dr. Drib]

All of these battery issues/concerns/outbursts/fears/exhortations/predictions/declarations/diatribes/[fill in your affiliation here] would be tucked safely away if Amazon treated the Kindle like cell-phones - regarding the battery. Just pop off the back and put in a new battery.

But it won't happen.

In the meantime, enjoy your new ebook reader. And if not....why, just return it.

[NullNix]

Originally Posted by Dr. Drib

All of these battery issues/concerns/outbursts/fears/exhortations/predictions/declarations/diatribes/[fill in your affiliation here] would be tucked safely away if Amazon treated the Kindle like cell-phones - regarding the battery. [B]Just pop off the back and put in a new battery.

Do cellphones with li-ion batteries really work that way nowadays? My understanding is that the consortium that runs lithium-ion battery tech prohibits user-replaceable batteries (their excuse is explosion if the charging circuit and battery become somehow mismatched, though I don't see why you can't just decree that they're always packaged together).

[John F]

I'm of the opinion that everyone should evaluate based on their own usage patterns (or planned usage patterns).

If I was going to use the Oasis because of it's ergonomic design, and based on my reading habits, I would be worried about battery life. I think I would go through a lot of charge cycles. I can appreciate the reader is designed to be put in the cover whenever you aren't using it, but why change my reading habits due to thier design decision?

I also tend to pass the reader along to family members (or maybe even sell it), and I'm not sure I would be comfortable doing this with such a limited battery size (1/5 of a typical ereader battery).

[John F]

Neither here nor there, but...

I went to use my ~10 year old DSLR the other day (it has lion batteries). I did a full charge before I used it, and I was only able to take about 20 shots before the battery died. My spare battery didn't fare much better.

[NullNix]

Originally Posted by John F

I'm of the opinion that everyone should evaluate based on their own usage patterns (or planned usage patterns).

If I was going to use the Oasis because of it's ergonomic design, and based on my reading habits, I would be worried about battery life. I think I would go through a lot of charge cycles. I can appreciate the reader is designed to be put in the cover whenever you aren't using it, but why change my reading habits due to thier design decision?

I also tend to pass the reader along to family members (or maybe even sell it), and I'm not sure I would be comfortable doing this with such a limited battery size (1/5 of a typical ereader battery).

The thing is, the battery is only so limited if you ignore the cover or if you routinely go on truly epic backache-inducing reading binges. Personally I always carry the thing in the cover, even indoors, and only take it out when actually reading one-handed; so the cover is always right there when I put it down again, and dropping it into the cover is zero effort (no need to go looking for it or anything, and it really does just snap in and out, yanked in by magnetism).

I didn't need to change my habits at all: it was certainly a smaller change than, well, reading one-handed was. (I was forced away from reading one-handed about ten years ago by advancing RSI: the ability to go back to that again was a big part of why I got the Oasis. If you always used to read paper books two-handed the Oasis is probably not useful for you.)

[Strether]

The original poster should note that JSWolf has completely changed the subject so that he could badmouth the Kindle some more. Something he's been doing since before there was a Kindle--when all we knew about it was the FCC filing. You should disregard all the blather about battery life as an attempt to keep you from buying an Oasis. If you're not sure it warrants the expenditure of the money, go to a store that sells them and look, or buy from Amazon and return it if you don't like it.

Jim

[John F]

Originally Posted by NullNix

The thing is, the battery is only so limited if you ignore the cover or if you routinely go on truly epic backache-inducing reading binges. Personally I always carry the thing in the cover, even indoors, and only take it out when actually reading one-handed; so the cover is always right there when I put it down again, and dropping it into the cover is zero effort (no need to go looking for it or anything, and it really does just snap in and out, yanked in by magnetism).

I didn't need to change my habits at all: it was certainly a smaller change than, well, reading one-handed was. (I was forced away from reading one-handed about ten years ago by advancing RSI: the ability to go back to that again was a big part of why I got the Oasis. If you always used to read paper books two-handed the Oasis is probably not useful for you.)

Right. So it works for you. It apparently wouldn't work for me.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by NullNix

Do cellphones with li-ion batteries really work that way nowadays? My understanding is that the consortium that runs lithium-ion battery tech prohibits user-replaceable batteries (their excuse is explosion if the charging circuit and battery become somehow mismatched, though I don't see why you can't just decree that they're always packaged together).

Hi. You can order lithium ion batteries. I know I just ordered some recently. Note, they will come in a 6 by 6 by 10" box. The warning labels take up one entire side of the box.

Anyway that was a bit off topic.
I think the OP should buy the kindle that fits his needs and budget. If it doesn't work for him Amazon has a 30 return policy.

[NullNix]

Originally Posted by John F

Right. So it works for you. It apparently wouldn't work for me.

Quite. It's not about the battery life, JSWolf notwithstanding -- that's "effectively forever, get surprised when it runs out of power" just like all e-ink Kindle models. It's all about the ergonomics. If you want one-handed operation and can afford it, go for it! In my case it cost about what I spend on books in two or three months, my existing PW1 was visibly ageing, I liked the look of the ergonomics a great deal, and I had an old birthday present of £100 towards a new Kindle to spend anyway, so I leapt at it: I always bought a cover to go with new Kindles so it wasn't even particularly overpriced.

Others might well have different priorities. This doesn't mean they're wrong (though of course it does of course mean they are *evil* and probably planning to destroy the universe in the next book).

[John F]

Originally Posted by NullNix

Quite. It's not about the battery life, JSWolf notwithstanding -- that's "effectively forever, get surprised when it runs out of power" just like all e-ink Kindle models. It's all about the ergonomics. If you want one-handed operation and can afford it, go for it! In my case it cost about what I spend on books in two or three months, my existing PW1 was visibly ageing, I liked the look of the ergonomics a great deal, and I had an old birthday present of £100 towards a new Kindle to spend anyway, so I leapt at it: I always bought a cover to go with new Kindles so it wasn't even particularly overpriced.

Others might well have different priorities. This doesn't mean they're wrong (though of course it does of course mean they are *evil* and probably planning to destroy the universe in the next book).

I disagree. For me, it is the battery life. It is not like all the other eink readers; it's battery is 1/5 the size of most of the other readers.

[Barbara1955]

Just buy https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...ne%2Caps%2C149
You can use these to charge you PW.

[seanyyz]

Thank you for your opinions (divergent as they were).

My key concerns are ergonomics (broadly defined), including weight and the ease of page turning and using the device to read without too much worry that the device will surprise me with a loss of power when I am at a key point in the plot, or just otherwise desperate for a good read.

Ideally, I think you should be able to forget you are holding the device at all as you become completely immersed in what you are reading. Your ability to do this will depend on the quality of the book and the device. Everything that distracts from actually reading the text takes away from the experience.

I spend a lot on books and an ereader that improves the reading experience is worth the money. And I deserve the occasional splurge. So the kindle oasis will be the next device. Just a question of when. The cover is only available in black right now in Canada and I will probably continue with my paperwhite until they add the walnut brown as a choice. (Black is fashionable but it becomes difficult to see when you toss into your carry-bag.

By the way, who is holding their breath to see the booker longlist on Wednesday? I think there are enough books this year for them to redeem themselves from the follies of the last few years.