Kobo should be incapable to prevent the publishing of a stolen epub? - Page 2

DiapDealer · 06-02-2016, 08:26 AM

This is how PD is supposed to work.
If you're adding something to a PD work that CAN be copyrighted, then either actively state/defend your copyright, or let it go. You're free to lovingly proof, create, distribute new editions of PD works free of charge, and others are free to try and make money off of your (or anybody else's--including the original author's) work. That's what Public Domain IS. It sucks sometimes, but the alternative would be NO free editions of aging works anywhere (including the Patricia Clark Memorial Library).

Add a notice of copyright for new features added (and defend it against those who infringe), or move on. PD is working exactly like it's supposed to (even if some of what it allows seems "unsavory").

GrannyGrump · 06-02-2016, 09:56 AM

@Doubleshuffle RE: Reviews on kobo site ---
yabbut --- it seems you can only review books you own that appear in your kobo.com on-line library . Am I missing something? (I've never used their site)

Yup, I found a few of the books I uploaded here at MR, and I would not have minded so much, but Kbook completely broke the formatting! This is an insult too painful for words.

(I wonder who this person is...)

doubleshuffle · 06-02-2016, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrannyGrump

@Doubleshuffle RE: Reviews on kobo site ---
yabbut --- it seems you can only review books you own that appear in your kobo.com on-line library . Am I missing something? (I've never used their site)

Yup, I found a few of the books I uploaded here at MR, and I would not have minded so much, but Kbook completely broke the formatting! This is an insult too painful for words.

(I wonder who this person is...)

I've reviewed books on Kobo that I didn't get from them. But it's been a while; perhaps they have changed something...

Re: the broken formatting - did you buy the books or just have a look at the instant preview? That preview sucks big time and doesn't have to resemble the formatting of the book you actually download.

Gardenman · 06-02-2016, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhowell

A standardized page at the end of books in the MobileRead - Patricia Clark Memorial Library indicating that the book was sourced from there would turn this sort of copying into free advertising for our community. Of course it is too late for books already copied and it would be a lot of work to update all of the existing books, but it would be easy for new and updated books.

I would put it at the front of the book somewhere.

bathop · 06-02-2016, 01:23 PM

02-29-2016, 08:35 PM:
'Caroline Bernstein, Franz Horn, Brockhaus, Leipzig 1839' announced at mobileread.com.

Quote:

The facts:

04-08-2016, 10:30 PM:
'Bernstein, Caroline Franz Horn_1839[German]V.1.epub' published at mobileread.com.
April 2016, later than 04-08-2016:
unauthorized copy published at kobo.com: Kbook, April 2016; Imprint: Kbook; ISBN: 1230001030648 .
05-11-2016:
Review typed on the book's page; 05-26-2016: not yet published.
05-12-2016 5:37:35 PM: Mail to kobo.com rejected:
Recipient not found [Mail-adress corresponds exactly to that found at the kobo.com-page Impressum].
05-25-2016 09:02 AM:
Notice of receipt from hilfe_at_kobobooks.com; answer advised within 24-48 hours.
05-26-2016:
Reviews typed on the book's page at kobo.com and bol.com which indicate that the book had been published first at mobileread.com etc. — kobo.com and bol.com show identical cover and description. —
05-28-2016 3:15 PM:
No answer to any of my mails.
Looking for the reviews, the book's page at kobo.com show the following remarks: The English version: There are currently no reviews. The German version: Verfassen Sie die erste Rezension. Verfassen sie eine rezension. — At bol.com: Schrijf een review.
05-30-2016 5:55 PM: Still no answer to any of my mails. Looking for the reviews, there is no change at all
06-02-2016 07:20 PM: Still no answer, still no change in the review fields. - indigo.ca and books.rakuten.co.jp offer the book as well.

The EPUB 'C.Bernstein: Franz Horn' contains, the book's text, two graphics, taken from the original edition,

the cover shown above, a remark concerning the edition with the name of the editor and 'mobileread.com' (page 4), some special formatting elements and, at the last page, a note about the writer, which corresponds to the text figuring at the head of its thread, the last parts beginning with the cover made by the editor.

DiapDealer · 06-02-2016, 01:51 PM

Just curious which portions of the "original" book you contributed to the MR library you believe should be "protected?"

"Stolen" and "unauthorized" are loaded words that have very little to do with the reality (or legality) of PD. What copyrightable material did you ADD to the original work that would give your claim legal merit?

bathop · 06-02-2016, 02:28 PM

You can read them just above, the cover and all parts mentioned below.

Cinisajoy · 06-02-2016, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bathop

You can read them just above, the cover and all parts mentioned below.

What parts?
The only thing I see you have listed is an epub.
Other than the cover, what exactly did you add to the public domain book?
And no I am not clicking your attachment.

bathop · 06-02-2016, 03:02 PM

As mentioned in #20:

Quote:

the cover

a remark concerning the edition with the name of the editor and 'mobileread.com' (page 4)

some special formatting elements and,

a note about the writer, at the last page. It corresponds to the text figuring at the head of the book's thread.

But I don't think it's my duty to copy and paste the whole book in this thread.

Cinisajoy · 06-02-2016, 03:20 PM

In post 20, you just say what you have done at Kobo.
Question 1, how many words in your remark?
Formatting, is it some you invented or could anyone have done it?
The note about the writer? Are you talking about the original author or yourself as the writer?

Now that we have clarified:

I must ask did you design the cover yourself? Is it a one license only cover?

Did you put your name on any of the comments you made in the book?

On the formatting, is it something really noticeable or something most people would have done?

Let me ask this another way, would it be obvious to an unknowing person that you had altered this book?
In other words if someone wanted to upload this book for sale and yours was the cleanest copy of the text , is it easy to tell your work from the original?

If yes to all of the above questions, then the other person should have at least changed covers and some words. But as it stands, sorry you cannot steal a public domain book.

bathop · 06-04-2016, 03:24 PM

(If there is any mistake, please apologize, English isn't my first language.)

The cover:
It shows the engravement of 'Franz Horn' (black and white; taken from the printed edition of 1839, inside) with a red border on which I put at the top the name of the author and at the bottom the title (the name 'Franz Horn'), font-face of both OFL Sorts Mill Goudy. This is how I designed it.

The remark (page 4 of the ebook) and the note at the end of the book (both certainly removed):
I put my name followed by '04/2016' and 'mobilread.com' at the bottom of both.
The remark gives information about:
The text follows the wording of the printed edition of 1839; the original orthography is kept; typos corrected, titles or subtitles added by me, page numbers of the original edition added, and anything else added marked by square braquets; and it names the source of the engravement embodied in the cover.

The formatting besides what everyone could have done:

page numbers of the original edition added:
followed by a colon, grey, in italics, in square brackets, put in the text-lines, if necessary at the end of the last paragraph of the preceeding page, pattern [179:], sometimes at the head of the new page, the colon shows the beginning of the new page; hyphenation reversed, the longer part of the word decides if it appears on the old or the new page;

footnotes (there are only a few):
they are put under the paragraphs they belong to, smaller characters; separated by a short line above and beneath from the text;

verses:
smaller characters, indenting follows the original form;

vignettes at the end of the chapters:
formed of normal characters, pattern e.g.:
----- ----oo--oo---- ;

titles and subtitles added:
appear also in the table of contents; characters in the text are
bigger, italics, in square brackets.
_______

I think it's the bundle of characteristics which marks the ebook I formatted.
My objective is to offer an ensemble of text which is easy to read and may serve as an reliable source for scholars as well.

The cover isn't really changed, there is a new cover, the second page still gives the former (my) cover.

When I was looking over the instant preview at Kobo's I could find these characteristics and establish that almost anything besides the font-face and the removed page 4 (the remark) was conform to what I published at MR. Even the transcript I put (in square brackets) at the bottom of the engraving (inside) is the same, I made it because the handwriting is something difficult to make out.

I studied several books of 'Franz Horn', which led me to his biography by Caroline Bernstein, and I found it interesting and worth of publishing it, having published prior to this book one of his five literary histories (Umrisse zur Geschichte und Kritik...) and one of his novels (Die Dichter. 3 vol.) at MR.

Finally,
stealing a public domain book does certainly not make sense, this is right if only the text was ripped. I don't have any objection if this biography is downloaded from MR without any charge, this why I put it into MR's library.

On the other hand, selling such a book, selling only the text without any characteristic formatting (means to me make it easy to read and reliable) doesn't make more sense. This is, however, what Kbook should have done, offering 1€99 to anyone who agreed to download his completely ripped and poorly formatted version. - In other words: An ebook which gives only the pure text isn't as much attractive to those persons.

HarryT · 06-04-2016, 03:41 PM

I share your annoyance at this, but it is perfectly legal, because the note you added has been removed. It's not an "unauthorised" copy: no authorisation is required, because the book is in the public domain.

JSWolf · 06-04-2016, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

I share your annoyance at this, but it is perfectly legal, because the note you added has been removed. It's not an "unauthorised" copy: no authorisation is required, because the book is in the public domain.

But, if the CSS was created by bathop and used by whoever posted it to Kobo, then whoever did this, did violate copyright.

HarryT · 06-04-2016, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

But, if the CSS was created by bathop and used by whoever posted it to Kobo, then whoever did this, did violate copyright.

Possibly. It is extremely debatable whether CSS is protected by copyright, and it would cost a great deal of money to go to court and get a judge's opinion.

Cinisajoy · 06-04-2016, 04:22 PM

Thank you for answering all my questions.
I agree with HarryT as yes it is annoying but not much you can do.
Now I want to check something.
I just tried to find it at Kobo and had no luck.

Oh and I downloaded your copy.
Your opening page tells me nothing about the book.

06-04-2016, 03:24 PM	#26
bathop ars_longa_vita_brevis Posts: 177 Karma: 5437647 Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: RLP Device: various	(If there is any mistake, please apologize, English isn't my first language.) The cover: It shows the engravement of 'Franz Horn' (black and white; taken from the printed edition of 1839, inside) with a red border on which I put at the top the name of the author and at the bottom the title (the name 'Franz Horn'), font-face of both OFL Sorts Mill Goudy. This is how I designed it. The remark (page 4 of the ebook) and the note at the end of the book (both certainly removed): I put my name followed by '04/2016' and 'mobilread.com' at the bottom of both. The remark gives information about: The text follows the wording of the printed edition of 1839; the original orthography is kept; typos corrected, titles or subtitles added by me, page numbers of the original edition added, and anything else added marked by square braquets; and it names the source of the engravement embodied in the cover. The formatting besides what everyone could have done: page numbers of the original edition added: followed by a colon, grey, in italics, in square brackets, put in the text-lines, if necessary at the end of the last paragraph of the preceeding page, pattern [179:], sometimes at the head of the new page, the colon shows the beginning of the new page; hyphenation reversed, the longer part of the word decides if it appears on the old or the new page; footnotes (there are only a few): they are put under the paragraphs they belong to, smaller characters; separated by a short line above and beneath from the text; verses: smaller characters, indenting follows the original form; vignettes at the end of the chapters: formed of normal characters, pattern e.g.: ----- ----oo--oo---- ; titles and subtitles added: appear also in the table of contents; characters in the text are bigger, italics, in square brackets. _______ I think it's the bundle of characteristics which marks the ebook I formatted. My objective is to offer an ensemble of text which is easy to read and may serve as an reliable source for scholars as well. The cover isn't really changed, there is a new cover, the second page still gives the former (my) cover. When I was looking over the instant preview at Kobo's I could find these characteristics and establish that almost anything besides the font-face and the removed page 4 (the remark) was conform to what I published at MR. Even the transcript I put (in square brackets) at the bottom of the engraving (inside) is the same, I made it because the handwriting is something difficult to make out. I studied several books of 'Franz Horn', which led me to his biography by Caroline Bernstein, and I found it interesting and worth of publishing it, having published prior to this book one of his five literary histories (Umrisse zur Geschichte und Kritik...) and one of his novels (Die Dichter. 3 vol.) at MR. Finally, stealing a public domain book does certainly not make sense, this is right if only the text was ripped. I don't have any objection if this biography is downloaded from MR without any charge, this why I put it into MR's library. On the other hand, selling such a book, selling only the text without any characteristic formatting (means to me make it easy to read and reliable) doesn't make more sense. This is, however, what Kbook should have done, offering 1€99 to anyone who agreed to download his completely ripped and poorly formatted version. - In other words: An ebook which gives only the pure text isn't as much attractive to those persons. Last edited by bathop; 06-04-2016 at 03:32 PM.

06-04-2016, 04:22 PM	#30
Cinisajoy Just a Yellow Smiley. Posts: 19,161 Karma: 83862859 Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Texas Device: K4, K5, fire, kobo, galaxy	Thank you for answering all my questions. I agree with HarryT as yes it is annoying but not much you can do. Now I want to check something. I just tried to find it at Kobo and had no luck. Oh and I downloaded your copy. Your opening page tells me nothing about the book. Last edited by Cinisajoy; 06-04-2016 at 04:34 PM.

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06-02-2016, 08:26 AM	#16
DiapDealer Grand Sorcerer Posts: 28,570 Karma: 204127028 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD	This is how PD is supposed to work. If you're adding something to a PD work that CAN be copyrighted, then either actively state/defend your copyright, or let it go. You're free to lovingly proof, create, distribute new editions of PD works free of charge, and others are free to try and make money off of your (or anybody else's--including the original author's) work. That's what Public Domain IS. It sucks sometimes, but the alternative would be NO free editions of aging works anywhere (including the Patricia Clark Memorial Library). Add a notice of copyright for new features added (and defend it against those who infringe), or move on. PD is working exactly like it's supposed to (even if some of what it allows seems "unsavory").

06-02-2016, 09:56 AM	#17
GrannyGrump Obsessively Dedicated... Posts: 3,221 Karma: 35037583 Join Date: May 2011 Location: PA {back in the usa!} Device: Sony PRS-T2, ADE on PC	@Doubleshuffle RE: Reviews on kobo site --- yabbut --- it seems you can only review books you own that appear in your kobo.com on-line library . Am I missing something? (I've never used their site) Yup, I found a few of the books I uploaded here at MR, and I would not have minded so much, but Kbook completely* broke the formatting*! This is an insult too painful for words. (I wonder who this person is...)

06-02-2016, 01:51 PM	#21
DiapDealer Grand Sorcerer Posts: 28,570 Karma: 204127028 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD	Just curious which portions of the "original" book you contributed to the MR library you believe should be "protected?" "Stolen" and "unauthorized" are loaded words that have very little to do with the reality (or legality) of PD. What copyrightable material did you ADD to the original work that would give your claim legal merit?

06-02-2016, 02:28 PM	#22
bathop ars_longa_vita_brevis Posts: 177 Karma: 5437647 Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: RLP Device: various	You can read them just above, the cover and all parts mentioned below.

06-02-2016, 03:20 PM	#25
Cinisajoy Just a Yellow Smiley. Posts: 19,161 Karma: 83862859 Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Texas Device: K4, K5, fire, kobo, galaxy	In post 20, you just say what you have done at Kobo. Question 1, how many words in your remark? Formatting, is it some you invented or could anyone have done it? The note about the writer? Are you talking about the original author or yourself as the writer? Now that we have clarified: I must ask did you design the cover yourself? Is it a one license only cover? Did you put your name on any of the comments you made in the book? On the formatting, is it something really noticeable or something most people would have done? Let me ask this another way, would it be obvious to an unknowing person that you had altered this book? In other words if someone wanted to upload this book for sale and yours was the cleanest copy of the text , is it easy to tell your work from the original? If yes to all of the above questions, then the other person should have at least changed covers and some words. But as it stands, sorry you cannot steal a public domain book.

06-04-2016, 03:41 PM	#27
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	I share your annoyance at this, but it is perfectly legal, because the note you added has been removed. It's not an "unauthorised" copy: no authorisation is required, because the book is in the public domain.

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