Amazon inks deal with New York City public schools

[darryl]

Originally Posted by MGlitch

When given the choice of a 50$ tablet that already serves those needs, or a 100+ dollar eink device which sort of does them, I think the education system will go for the cheaper option. Amazon will likely push that as well since it gives them a portal to sell more types of content to the owner.

Why does there need to be only one option? Yes, a Fire Tablet will almost certainly be the main focus. But if there is a need or demand for e-ink devices at all, offering such an option is certainly not going to do any harm.

[MGlitch]

Because, in general, school budgets are not overflowing with excess cashflow. Picking the cheaper option which meets all the demands will trump having a variety which scales up in price and only adds slight variation*.


*I use slight here in the context of what the schools likely goal is, to obtain and distribute devices which allow students to read various books. This can be done just as easily on a tablet as it can on eink, the preferences of the reader for the medium with which they read do not come in to play.

[darryl]

@MClitch. Accessibility is about special needs. If there is a need by a proportion of students for e-ink, budgets will normally be forced to accommodate this. Having an e-ink reader meeting accessibility requirements available as an option which could be included in a future contract certainly would not harm Amazon's chances. Even if it only by bolstering its reputation as a caring company. And, if Amazon is going to do it anyway, to expand the sue of Alexa, for instance?

I don't think the possibility can be excluded.

[MGlitch]

They would need to develop a case that eink not only provided a service the tablets didn't, but that the tablets actually hindered the student from reading. This is quite aside from the additional features available on the tablet, rather it's all to to with screen versus screen.

To be clear, I don't think the resistance for adding eink devices to the contract would come from Amazon per se, they just wouldn't be pushing for it. The resistance would be from the board of education for the state/city. Unless enough students could show a genuine need for eink screens over tablet screens, which would be rather difficult since these students are using computers in the schools, then it's possible the budget would be altered to allow for eink devices.

However it would need to be a fairly sizable portion of students, and the requirements of proof of eink being -required- not just preferred would be pretty steep. It's not just a matter of saying 'Well students want eink, and even though it costs more we're just going to do it!' Something in the budget would be trimmed away, possibly not from the deal with Amazon, but from other programs the school offers. Typically you hear about the arts being cut from the school curriculum. This sort of thing would be one of the reasons that happens.

So yes, it's possible. It's also possible to win the lotto, but I wouldn't suggest quitting your job in anticipation of that, nor would I suggest holding your breath for the school system to make requests or demands from Amazon for an eink device with those features. The red tape is simply stacked against it happening.

[theducks]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

For accessibility, Kindles would need audio.

They would also need Buttons or some sort of tactile feedback (for an Audiobook reader)

But who says ALL students get the same device? OSFA is a standard government think. The ADA indicates they must accommodate the students needs

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by theducks

They would also need Buttons or some sort of tactile feedback (for an Audiobook reader)

But who says ALL students get the same device? OSFA is a standard government think. The ADA indicates they must accommodate the students needs

I can think of one very good reason for getting all students the same device.
It will save the teacher's sanity.
She will only have to give one set of instructions not 30.

[darryl]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

I can think of one very good reason for getting all students the same device.
It will save the teacher's sanity.
She will only have to give one set of instructions not 30.

Don't you mean the 30 kids only have to give one set of instructions to the teacher?

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by theducks

They would also need Buttons or some sort of tactile feedback (for an Audiobook reader)

But who says ALL students get the same device? OSFA is a standard government think. The ADA indicates they must accommodate the students needs

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

I can think of one very good reason for getting all students the same device.
It will save the teacher's sanity.
She will only have to give one set of instructions not 30.

I favor two devices. One that meets ADA standards for those students who need it and everyone else gets an off-the-shelf device. Why waste tax dollars on customized devices for students who don't need it? And the same thing for libraries.

[Fiat_Lux]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

I favor two devices. One that meets ADA standards for those students who need it and everyone else gets an off-the-shelf device. Why waste tax dollars on customized devices for students who don't need it? And the same thing for libraries.

Accessibility is hard. Very hard. No single device will meet all A11y use cases. The closest you can get to that, is a device that can interact in what is perceptually faster than real time with the a11y accessory.
Some mandatory accessories:

• Joystick
• Physical Keyboard
• Braille Display Monitor
• Screen Reader
• Speech control
• Eye tracking based keyboard

That is by no means a complete list. Also remember that these devices not only have to play nicely with the device, but also with each other.

My estimate is that the cost for those devices will be more than double the amount that Amazon gets for this contract.

Amazon

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

I favor two devices. One that meets ADA standards for those students who need it and everyone else gets an off-the-shelf device. Why waste tax dollars on customized devices for students who don't need it? And the same thing for libraries.

In this particular case, one device will suffice.
Fire Tablet which has TTS and most other accessibility features is $50.
A basic kindle which has no accessibility features is $79.
Now I am sure the students that have very special needs will be accommodated.
Therefore you would be spending more money on non-accessible items.

Or if the schools already provide laptops or some cheap tablets to the students then all that would need to be done is add the kindle app.

ADA rules are sometimes very strange.
When I was in college my hands were giving me fits. Because of this, I was asked to attend a disabled meeting. (My job was working with the special population. )
The college was NOT ADA compliant at the time.
They had to change every threshold on the campus. They also had to adjust the hydraulic systems on many of the restroom doors. As it turns out, if I had trouble with a door, the door needed adjusted. I know after the maintenance guy checked the one I complained about, he asked me to please check all the restroom doors. It was easier for me to test, than use the tester.

[dickloraine]

Maybe a stupid question, but why would someone who can't visually read need an e-ink screen? Why pay premium for a screen you will never be able to use? An eReader is a very specialized device.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by dickloraine

Maybe a stupid question, but why would someone who can't visually read need an e-ink screen? Why pay premium for a screen you will never be able to use? An eReader is a very specialized device.

Well my uncle could have used the TTS on the K5. He never did though he did get books from the library for the blind.
But: a fully accessible tablet would be better.

[MarjaE]

Originally Posted by darryl

Interesting that hardware like KIndle's is not included in the deal. Does this get Amazon off the hook, at least for a while, on accessibility? Presumably it seems students will be able to read on Android tablets and other devices. In this case Amazon only needs to provide acceptable accessibility features in its software. Mind you, it does make sense for Amazon to make its Kindle's and Fire's as accessible as possible, and I'm sure they will be working on this. But I'd say that it has bought some time and allowed this contract to proceed. I suspect Amazon will want to make its hardware part of the next deal!

Android tablets are also touch devices, so even if this gets Amazon off the hook, unless there are a lot of Kindle Keyboards available, students with coordination problems are going to have to use regular computers to read the books.

And the tablets I've tried do not work well with external controllers. Having to start using the touchscreen, having to link using both devices and some fancy two-handed coordination, finding that you can't input text while using the controller, etc. it's hopeless.

And the tablets I've tried all have painfully bright screens, though polarized privacy filters might help.

Ada standards are worse than worthless for sensory processing issues. I think they require incapacitatingly loud and incapacitating bright strobing alarms.

[Fiat_Lux]

Originally Posted by dickloraine

but why would someone who can't visually read need an e-ink screen? Why pay premium for a screen you will never be able to use?

It isn't so much that the blind person needs an e-ink screen, as it is that the cost of the e-ink screen is minimal, in comparison to the cost of the Braille display monitor.

The other factor is support. It is much easier to support one or two basic devices, and the accessibility tools that plug into them, than umpteen different devices, each of which is focused on a specific group of accessibility issues.

Amber

[dickloraine]

Originally Posted by Fiat_Lux

It isn't so much that the blind person needs an e-ink screen, as it is that the cost of the e-ink screen is minimal, in comparison to the cost of the Braille display monitor.

The other factor is support. It is much easier to support one or two basic devices, and the accessibility tools that plug into them, than umpteen different devices, each of which is focused on a specific group of accessibility issues.

Amber

Of course, but that is what I mean. Why choose a specialized device as the basic? Tablets are cheaper and have more processing power. And using android means you can easily add additional software and that on devices of different manufacturers.