Literary What Maisie Knew by Henry James

[Bookpossum]

Having finished the book, I agree that my first reaction was indeed too dark. Otherwise, the ending would not have been as it is. I won't comment on that as I don't want to take away from the experience of others.

I came away with the definite feeling that everyone in the book was peculiar in one way or another, with the exception of Maisie, but of course her desperate attempts to understand what was going on, and the treatment she received at the hands of those who should have taken most care of her, her parents, would be enough to warp any child.

I was also left feeling that what Henry James needed most was a good editor! Some of his sentences go on forever and are almost impossible to understand, even when I reread them. Here's one I noted, though earlier in the book, there were some that were even worse!

(In reference to the apartment in the hotel) They offered the good lady herself, Maisie could immediately observe, not only that of this rather grand reference, which, already emulous, so far as it went, of her pupil, she made as if she had spent her life in salons; but that of a stiff French sofa where she could sit and stare at the faint French lamp, in default of the French clock that had stopped, as for some account of the time Sir Claude would markedly interpose. (Chapter 24)

Oh dear! Anyway, I'm glad I have read it, and I shall certainly read The Golden Bowl sometime soon.

[Spinnenmonat]

Originally Posted by Bookpossum

Having finished the book, I agree that my first reaction was indeed too dark. Otherwise, the ending would not have been as it is. I won't comment on that as I don't want to take away from the experience of others.

I came away with the definite feeling that everyone in the book was peculiar in one way or another, with the exception of Maisie, but of course her desperate attempts to understand what was going on, and the treatment she received at the hands of those who should have taken most care of her, her parents, would be enough to warp any child.

I was also left feeling that what Henry James needed most was a good editor! Some of his sentences go on forever and are almost impossible to understand, even when I reread them. Here's one I noted, though earlier in the book, there were some that were even worse!





Oh dear! Anyway, I'm glad I have read it, and I shall certainly read The Golden Bowl sometime soon.

This one is definitely 10 times more difficult than Maisie. After reading Maisie I will begin with it immediately. It will be wonderful if you also write something about the book here.

[poohbear_nc]

*snip*

I was also left feeling that what Henry James needed most was a good editor! Some of his sentences go on forever and are almost impossible to understand, even when I reread them. Here's one I noted, though earlier in the book, there were some that were even worse!

Henry James dictated his later works - he experienced pain trying to write his works in longhand - perhaps developed carpal tunnel syndrome- he was a voracious letter writer. Dictation allowed him to construct these elaborate, long sentences that he would later edit on the typescript, adding punctuation to break them up a bit.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, following Rebecca West's suggestion, read these sentences out loud -- as conversation, rather than prose on the page.

Also, since James inserts many qualifying/descriptive clauses mid-sentence, you can read up to the first comma, jump to the end of the sentence (the part after the last punctuation mark) -- this gives you the main subject/idea of the sentence, and then go back and add the clauses.

[Bookworm_Girl]

Originally Posted by poohbear_nc

*snip*



Henry James dictated his later works - he experienced pain trying to write his works in longhand - perhaps developed carpal tunnel syndrome- he was a voracious letter writer. Dictation allowed him to construct these elaborate, long sentences that he would later edit on the typescript, adding punctuation to break them up a bit.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, following Rebecca West's suggestion, read these sentences out loud -- as conversation, rather than prose on the page.

Also, since James inserts many qualifying/descriptive clauses mid-sentence, you can read up to the first comma, jump to the end of the sentence (the part after the last punctuation mark) -- this gives you the main subject/idea of the sentence, and then go back and add the clauses.

This is great insight and the suggestion is very helpful. Thanks!

[Spinnenmonat]

Originally Posted by poohbear_nc

*snip*



Henry James dictated his later works - he experienced pain trying to write his works in longhand - perhaps developed carpal tunnel syndrome- he was a voracious letter writer. Dictation allowed him to construct these elaborate, long sentences that he would later edit on the typescript, adding punctuation to break them up a bit.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, following Rebecca West's suggestion, read these sentences out loud -- as conversation, rather than prose on the page.

Also, since James inserts many qualifying/descriptive clauses mid-sentence, you can read up to the first comma, jump to the end of the sentence (the part after the last punctuation mark) -- this gives you the main subject/idea of the sentence, and then go back and add the clauses.

Thank you. It's a very helpful method to read the most works of James. But for the big 3, I don't know whether it works. The difficulty is not only in the complicated sentences, but also in the ambiguous meaning of many words. Maybe you can judge it when you begin to read them.

[AnotherCat]

I wasn't going to comment as I only got as far as Chapter 8 before giving up for now. But given some of my thoughts align with those already posted I will add them even if compromised by an incomplete read.

In part the reason was I found the book quite overwritten, contained too many long and sometimes ambiguous sentences, and other things I was uncomfortable with such as use of an adverb when the sense added by the adverb was redundant as was already clear from the preceding sentence or even earlier in the same sentence.

However, this to me added a darkness to the book which was appropriate, but given the comments on Jame's writing methodology this was likely not his intention. The only other book of his I have read is Portrait... but that a very long time ago and I cannot remember it in any detail in order to compare the style.

The main reason for giving up is I am away travelling at the moment for 3 or 4 weeks so with other things going on (and often no internet as relying on cellular) it required too much concentration to work through but I will return to it again when I get home as it is a book I would like to complete.

Regarding Lord Claude and any improper attraction to Maisie I did wonder the same but put it aside as maybe being unfair, and too complicated for me anyway, to compare with todays values or tendencies to be suspicious. As an example of such changes between the time of writing and the present the allowable age of marriage in Jame's USA was as low as 7 years old (depending on state, and if I recall correctly Maisie was 6 years old at the start of the book) and 12 years in England (it was that in England until well into the 20th Century).

[fantasyfan]

F. R. Leavis in his critical work The Great Tradition makes an interesting observation:

" . . . the consummately 'done' theme of What Masie Knew is the incorruptible innocence of Masie; innocence that not merely preserves itself in what might have seemed irresistibly corrupting circumstances, but can even generate decency out of the egotistic squalors of adult personal relations."

Looked at in this way, What Masie Knew has a reasonably positive message. Masie has shown herself to be a survivor and the feeling I get is that she will continue so.

[Bookpossum]

I do wonder though about the harm done to her in terms of self-esteem. Being abandoned by both her parents is pretty damaging, although their lack of care was compensated by the devotion of Mrs Wix.

[Spinnenmonat]

There is one thing in chapter 21 that puzzles me so much. Maisie smokes! Does it mean literally or...? What do you think about it?

[Spinnenmonat]

I've finished the book. I like it. This kind of ambiguity is just the charm of James' writing style. The last chapter has a strong dramatic und theatrical element, which is rare in James' novels.
But I stilll feel puzzled about some of Maisie's behaviors, like the smoking thing. But it seems that nobody cares.

[Bookpossum]

I meant to look up the bit about smoking, as I didn't recall that. Just about to go out, but I shall have a look when I get home.

[Bookworm_Girl]

I do recall it and re-reading it, but I don't think that it was meant literally. Rather that she felt like she was. I think it was after the goodbye scene with her mother and she was feeling especially connected to Sir Claude who was now "free" and they could go to Paris. I think she is also feeling free and a step more grown-up. So really he's smoking but she's his companion so that was what it meant by "they" smoked. Like she is feeling at one with him in the moment is how I interpreted it.

I finished the book this week and am glad we read it. I will post more over the weekend.

[Bookworm_Girl]

I have finally caught up with all of the postings. I didn't want to spoil too much before I was finished. Great insight from everyone - thanks to all!

The Master was one of my favorite books that we read last year, and I'm glad that we read one of the books that was written during the same time period which The Master covered. I found a version of the book which contained James's preface from 1907. This short essay added insight into how he developed the book and the message he intended to deliver. An interesting bit of trivia is the choice that the story ends in Boulogne where James as a young teenager suffered a severe illness and associated with his own transition into adulthood. I enjoyed the ambiguity of what Maisie knows/knew or didn't know, and the additional layer that the adult perceptions of the reader adds. As fantasyfan noted I liked that the book ended with optimism that Maisie would remain incorruptible as she continued to mature.

How common and accepted was divorce in this time period? The book treats it with more acceptance than I expected. My grandmother's parents divorced not too far from this time period. My great-grandmother remarried. My grandmother took her stepfather's surname, and the family moved to a new town where nobody would know them. The children were not allowed to tell people that their stepfather was not their biological father.

My library has the movie, and I may borrow it when I have time. I found this quote from the screenplay authors that illustrates Maisie as a survivor:

The durability of the novel is principally attributable to James's choice on an extremely resilient and generous-spirited child as, not only his protagonist, but as the lens through which we experience the bewildering chaos of adult life. She faces her trials with such grace that she is exactly the person we hope to be - and what more can one ask of a protagonist? As we wrote the script, no matter what changes we made to the plot of the novel, and there were may, we were always guided by what James called "the very principle of Maisie's appeal, her undestroyed freshness, in other words that vivacity of intelligence by which she indeed does vibrate in the infected air, indeed does flourish in her immoral world." And though the air she breathes is indeed exceedingly infected, that vibration of a girl protected from the toxicity of her situation by her inability to fully grasp it - and by her sterling good nature - produces a tone so pure that it rings as true and compelling in 2013 as it first must have in 1897.

[Bookpossum]

Yes, I agree with your interpretation of the "smoking" episode, Bookworm_Girl.

I think divorce was pretty rare and ruining of one's reputation - quite probably even of the innocent party, always supposing one was actually innocent and one guilty. The idea of a breakdown of the relationship and agreement between the parties that they would be better to divorce was just not an option until relatively recently. The story about your grandmother's family is I think a good illustration of the opprobrium in which divorce was held at that time.

[caleb72]

OK - so I read it.

It wasn't bad. I gave it 3 stars because I liked what was behind it all.

The best thing about the novel was the title because it bounced around the prose on almost every page. What did Maisie know? What did she not know?

It's such a subject for discussion throughout because James cleverly leaves you guessing most of the time whether she knows anything at all, or she is just adaptable to whatever truth happens to arrive at the time. And she was very adaptable - in all ways.

One of the things I found interesting was that Maisie's life should probably have been rather miserable. But James continued to portray her full of innocence and optimism (although her innocence may have finally been slipping towards the end).

I found the enormous tug of war for the rights to Sir Claude at the end of the novel rather baffling, especially when two out of three of the combatants were ready so quickly to quit him completely. But James leaves us hanging at the end doesn't he? We're left wondering whether Maisie could be happy with Wix - and is there some secret to Wix I didn't fully understand at the end there? And do we think that Sir Claude would likely be happy with Mrs Beale?

I confess that I care very little with what would happen to Maisie's original parents. They seemed to exist to elicit disgust.

I could have enjoyed the novel more if it wasn't for James' prose which felt tortured on almost every page. Additionally, he seemed to obscure meaning wherever possible. Very frustrating.

I don't think I'll bother with his The Golden Bowl any time soon.