Adios Sony, Let's try this again

[Undue Process !]

Originally Posted by slayda

You can not say that they can't make SW upgrades when several "hackers' on this very forum have managed to provide some upgrades independent of Sony. I would like to point out that they were not and are not on the Sony design team. Does this mean that "our hackers" are geniuses or that the Sony design team are untalented?

What are you talking about? Everyone who's mentioned the issue so far in this thread has agreed that it would much behoove Sony to release a software update for the 500 and the Sony has said that they are looking into it. However, the 500 simply can't do what the 505 can do.

You may say that you just want this one minute update here or there and this can't be that hard... But where do you draw the line? Will you still be complaining that the 510 has better features? Will you expect your current computer to last you to the end of your life? Well, it might as long as you're happy using it exactly as you do today, but most likely computer manufacturers will invent a desirable new technology that you will want to use and you will need to buy a new one because the definition of "new" is that it didn't exist previously and you can't expect old technology to have made allowances for that.

[RickyMaveety]

You also left out the option for "Sony has simply lost my business, and it has nothing to do with their line of ebook readers."

That would get my vote.

[Nate the great]

Originally Posted by Undue Process !

What are you talking about? Everyone who's mentioned the issue so far in this thread has agreed that it would much behoove Sony to release a software update for the 500 and the Sony has said that they are looking into it. However, the 500 simply can't do what the 505 can do.

How do you know that the 500 can't support Epub and/or PDF reflow?

[spec2]

I voted to give Sony another $300 but then again I'm a fully fledged "early adopter" type. I don't expect much out of early products and don't expect updates or for manufacturers to fulfil empty promises anymore than a politician.

[Undue Process !]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

How do you know that the 500 can't support Epub and/or PDF reflow?

I don't, and in my previous post I mentioned that speculation can really get us nowhere since we were not engineers on the PRS project, I am merely trying, by stating the obvious fact that the 500 is different than the 505, to say that asking for the same firmware update on the 500 is naive and I can't see where the anger towards Sony is coming from. They still have plenty of time to release updates for the 500 (and hopefully they will) but at any rate I think we can say that even if they can support some of these features on it, they wouldn't be able to simply drag and drop them from the 505 update, it will take some time. Rather than storming off in a rage and going to another big company that will act the same way or a little company that will go out of business, constructive criticisms and helpful requests should be made.

I do understand the sense of disappointment in their business methods and how they treat their customers in general, but I thought that everybody long got over the fact that large companies do things the way that suits them. They're not white knights, they're robber barons.

I've had plenty of dislike for Sony for things like refusing to put anything but memory stick slots in their products (though they have, obviously, changed that at least on the reader) and other consumer unfriendly practices, and I'm not saying that people should be entirely quiet and complacent under the reign of this treatment, but it is counter intuitive to declare that you are "done" with one of the largest consumer electronics companies in the world over such a relatively minor incident as this.

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by fdp

Some people feel that what is being done to the PRS500 is unfair (in the interest of disclosure I am one of them). They were 1st generation adopters, and there always is a level of risk to that, . . .

I don't think, fdp, you need go any further than "there is always a level of risk" in being a first-generation adopter, but the reality is that electronic technology doesn't stand still and those of us who own 505s will be treated similarly in the future as the technology changes. It is no different than buying a computer with today's cutting edge processor, only to discover tomorrow that a new processor will be released in a week.

Sony made no promise to you to upgrade your 500, just as it has made no promise to me to upgrade my 505. You knew what you were buying when you bought it. Does Apple have to replace all 1st generation iPhones so that they can run on 3G networks? Will Amazon have to replace all 1st gen Kindles when it releases Kindle 2.0?

The bottom line is that these tech toys are disposables in today's world and whenever you buy a bit of technology, you know it will be outmoded in the near future.

[Nate the great]

I finally figured out how to say this.

Sony's decision not to upgrade the PRS-500 is an indication that Sony doesn't care about existing customers. They do not care about anyone who has already given Sony their money. Sony only cares about future sales. They didn't upgrade the 505 to help existing owners, but to increase sales.

When the PRS-510 comes out, and existing 505 owners are abandoned, I will be there to say: "I told you so".

[acidzebra]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

When the PRS-510 comes out, and existing 505 owners are abandoned, I will be there to say: "I told you so".

And you will be welcome to your glee, and my 505 will still do the things I bought it for. I didn't even need this firmware upgrade, I was already happy with it. They could "abandon" it right now and I couldn't care less.

Do these "adios Sony" threads feel like

to anyone else?

[Nate the great]

Originally Posted by acidzebra

And you will be welcome to your glee, and my 505 will still do the things I bought it for. I didn't even need this firmware upgrade, I was already happy with it. They could "abandon" it right now and I couldn't care less.

I will feel no sense of glee, sorrow would be a better word. I'm impressed with Epub and reflowable PDF support. I've been thinking about getting a 505.

[igorsk]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

Sony's decision not to upgrade the PRS-500 is an indication that Sony doesn't care about existing customers.

It's a matter of effort and return.
To release an update for the 500 Sony would need:
1) Port the code to the 500 which has some differences in hardware from 505 (the easiest part)
2) Test it internally
3) Test it with a group of users
4) Update documentation
5) Train support people
6) Update the servers to carry the binaries and document the update procedure
7) Put up press releases and whatnot

Every step takes resources and people from something else. Can they afford it? Probably. Can they afford to have people NOT work on those other projects? Who knows.
What would they get out of it? The gratitude of some users who still use the 500 and would update.
Apparently Sony decided that they better spend their resources on something else (like improving the 505 or developing 510 or something).

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

When the PRS-510 comes out, and existing 505 owners are abandoned, I will be there to say: "I told you so".

But Nate, how is what Sony has done any different from what every other company has done and does? Every year Toyota comes out with a new update to its automobiles -- updates that aren't retrofitted to the model bought last year. Every year new TVs with new features and capabilities come out that aren't retrofitted to last year's model. Every few months a new computer processor or motherboard or hard drive or whatever comes out. The list is endless.

Why do you feel so much more incensed about Sony not offering a firmware upgrade to the 500 than you do about the car you bought 6 months ago now being outdated by a new model year and yours not be upgraded? The investment in the car is significantly greater than that in the 500.

Planned obsolescence is the mainstay of all capitalist economies. The only change in the past 50 years is that obsolescence occurs more rapidly with electronic equipment.

[Nate the great]

Your analogy is wrong. This is software, not hardware.

I don't expect Sony to release any upgrades at all. But since they have, I expect them to support the older device.

[BuddyBoy]

Jeepers people, if you're that worked up and want a "trade-up" program, just sell you PRS500 and buy a 505. I did that when the 505 came out so I managed to get $200 for the 500, which meant only $99 for the upgrade.

When and if the 510 comes out, I'll probably do the same. I certainly save more than $100 a year in book purchasing with the lower prices of ebooks, not to mention shipping costs and/or gas for driving to a big enough store that has the titles I'm looking for. Plus, I'm a sucker for the latest and greatest.

I just did a search on ebay looking at the completed sales and working PRS500s with their accessories are still going for about $150-200 mark. W/o accessories, it's $120-150 and as/is untested with cosmetic damage, $50.

[Undue Process !]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

Your analogy is wrong. This is software, not hardware.

I don't expect Sony to release any upgrades at all. But since they have, I expect them to support the older device.

I don't see why Sony's releasing an update for the 505 is being construed as the same thing as them entirely abandoning everyone who ever gave them money in the past. They are still entirely able to release updates for the 500, but it just so happens that making these things takes time. I'm not saying that I know they will release anything and given Sony's history, it wouldn't be below them to abandon the device, but you can't expect these things to happen all at once and none of us even know if the same updates are possible.

It's not like your old device is bricked, Sony is obviously still interested in the PRS line and are still selling books that still work on your old device.

And as to the hardware software analogy, you can't say that this isn't hardware, in dedicated devices like this the tie between the software and hardware are far more intimate than in general purpose computers and porting things between devices becomes much harder.

AAAHAHAAHH MY FIRST GENERATEIOHN IMAC IS ONLY 10 YEARS OLD WHICH IS LIKE NOTHING IN GEOLOGIC TIME AND APPLE JSUT RELEAESED CORE ANIMATION ON LEOPARD AND I WANT OT ON MY ICMAC ITS A SOFTWARE UPDATE WHAT ARE THEY THINKING THEY MUST BE PURPOSEFULLY SPITING ME FOR SUPPORTING THEM IN THE PAST NOTWITHSATNDING THE FACT TAHT I ONLY BOUGHT THIS COMPUTER TO BWOWSE THE WEB ON MY 56K CONNECTION USING NETSCAPE AND MAKE SPREADSHEETS IN EXCEL 1998

Sony is acting exactly like any company at all would. When I bought my 505 I thought, "This is a niche product that will never catch on with mainstream consumers and Sony will abandon it within the next 5 years because it won't be making them any money." It might seem like it's better for Sony to support their old customers and build a trust with them, but all that's doing is pulling them away from making new, better products that will actually draw revenue. That is what is good for Sony and I don't know why anyone ever thought that Sony would do something that was bad for Sony.

[Nate the great]

I find it encouraging that y'all have provided such absurd examples. This suggests that my arguments are not so unreasonable. I will state my position again:

I do not expect Sony to release updates. But, if they do, I expect Sony to release updates for both the 500 and the 505. If Sony releases an update for one device but not the other, then Sony has in effect abandoned the other device.