OverDrive is destroying libraries.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by loviedovie

Let me clarify my position.

I am not talking about the benefits of OD or how awesome it is. I am talking about the long term effects on the way the local libraries operate.

Thank you for clarifying that your position is exactly what I thought it was.

Now maybe you do not give a damn flying bird poop about this issue. However I am claiming that in 20 years you wont be able to borrow paper books or ebooks that are owned by the library from your local libs. Probably you still will be able to borrow paper books, but with special permission, and not to take out of to the library. And all the ebooks and the digital contents that your local lib will provide you will come through OD. OD will decide and filter while maybe keeping an eye on the market needs.

Well, make up your mind. Will you be able to borrow paper books or not? Granted that you've decided paper books are Not The Issue.

Personally, if we are all going to be hazarding random fact-free predictions of the future, I predict that we will be able to borrow paper books just like we do today, for far, far, far, FAR longer than 20 years. Maybe the better part of a century, or however long it takes for people to not WANT to buy or borrow paper books.

Eventually we will reach a point where actual paper books are priceless historical artifacts, and no one will be allowed to touch the ones still in existence, but that is an entirely different matter.

Meanwhile, OverDrive will continue to impartially offer a catalog full of all BPH-published ebooks (and continue to mostly discriminate against Indie books), under the terms and prices agreed to by the publishers, and libraries will continue to be able to buy whatever ebooks they choose, without any filtering.

Come back to this topic 20 years later and write what you think about the state of the local libraries then. I am saying that as long as most people think that this is the libraries should operate, like letting a corporation run the backend and the frontend of our libraries, we wont have free and fair libraries in the future.

What does it matter who runs the infrastructure? You realize libraries for a long time have been paying corporations to run their backend and frontend? Whether it is their webhost or the vendor who provides the cataloging software (BiblioCommons, Polaris, etc.) it is and always has been corporations who do things for money, that provide public services the tools necessary to do their job.

To think otherwise is downright naïve, and I think you should leave activism-for-the-public-good to people who know what they are talking about.

Yes, libraries themselves are well-equipped to ask the questions you are asking, and surprisingly enough, they DO actually care about the fulfilling their fundamental purpose as a service for the public good. Why don't you discuss these questions with your local librarians and see what they think, for a start?

Probably the number of physical libraries will diminish and those who can stand against the sands of time will mostly be culture centers.

As opposed to... what? Paper book vending machines?

I want the paper book vending machines to die! They have no reason whatsoever to exist!

Again you do not need physical hospitable buildings to provide digital lending library services. For instance Gutenberg.org and Archive.org does not have cafes or buildings to hang around.

What is your point???

Anyway the issue I am raising here has nothing to do with paper books whatsoever. I am talking about one corporation dominating our libraries. Paperbooks will be here for a while, that is not the main issue. OD providing lending library or not does not make a difference on the fate of paper books. That is just the way techology replacing another tachnology. That should not be the part of the discussion here.[/QUOTE]

No one but you thought that anyone thought it should make a difference, so I guess that is all right then?

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by loviedovie

No, it is not keeping libraries relevant to people`s lives. It is keeping OD`s own fate relavant to people's lives.

OD is a corporation, it is not a non-profit and does not work for public interest unless it is forced by the people or the market.

Well, OverDrive's business model involves getting people to pay them in exchange for providing software services to the public interest market.

So, congratulations on your successful execution of a tautology.

Originally Posted by loviedovie

You said it. There is "one" main repository. Our libraries will need more and more OD blood in the future, like addiction. And addiction is no good.


I naturally try to support local library as much as possible. I do not even mind if the city increases taxes to keep my library independent from corporate take over like that.

I never used OD myself, and I highly discourage my friends using them, for a reason.

Assuming you don't count Axis360.
Or 3M.
Or Freading.

[CWatkinsNash]

Originally Posted by loviedovie

I naturally try to support local library as much as possible. I do not even mind if the city increases taxes to keep my library independent from corporate take over like that.

So you support the city spending more money to make the library less useful? Because there is no way to provide a useful selection of ebooks without corporate interests coming into play.

[Ravensknight]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Meanwhile, OverDrive will continue to impartially offer a catalog full of all BPH-published ebooks (and continue to mostly discriminate against Indie books)

Ha. Score one for Overdrive!

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Assuming you don't count Axis360.
Or 3M.
Or Freading.

Or the libraries who have ditched OD and set up their own system with their own content server.

[dickloraine]

Isn't OD just a middle-man? If its services wouldn't provide value, one could just not use it. Isn't the licensing of the big publishers the real "problem" for libraries? All books not buy able by libraries now, are that way not because OD refuses to sell them, but the publisher.

[crane3]

The county library system here already into other things long ago like having computers for patrons to use for internet & computers for looking up stuff on the catalogs aside from have videos & cds for borrowing. A printer is available to print stuff as well as FREE wifi 24 hrs. Lots of mags for research like Consumer Reports are available to view online with one's "library card" signon.

Printed books will mostly be available as not all printed books are in a ereader format (isn't there a thread about that here?).

The only "downside" is that there may not be as many part time jobs for students to re-stack the books. The librarians are not dumb about the new tech. Heck, a librarian was the one who told me how to use Aldiko to borrow & return the ebooks instead of downloading onto my computer & then from the pc to the tablet; didn't need the OD app.

And a nearby branch library is in the process of having patrons supply ideas how to setup their new larger library building.......

[jhowell]

In the US OverDrive allows borrowing of Kindle e-books, fulfilled by Amazon. I have wondered whether Amazon might cut out the middleman someday. That would be some real competition.

[John F]

Putting on my rose colored glasses for a possible way to eliminate Overdrive (and rearrange the quote from eschwartz for relative points) ...

Originally Posted by eschwartz

...
Which you cannot do with ebooks, unless you want to start your own extremely expensive DRM fulfillment platform. (Or lease Adobe's which is still expensive plus is controlled by a corporation that scares me more than OverDrive does.)

... building your own ebook library frontend (because I don't know of any libraries that actually wrote their own cataloging software, they usually purchase it from the handful of vendors who write library cataloging software for a living and sell it to hundreds/thousands of libraries), writing an app (and excluding E-Ink) if you went without Adobe...

Although a hurdle, it seems as coming up with an alternative lending DRM scheme doesn't seem insurmountable.

The scheme itself should be trivial, it doesn't have to be good, since most people don't know about DRM and don't care.

As for the software, start a kickstarter or some open project, endowment, ... or get government funding. Eink implementation may be a problem, but Android and IOS apps should be doable.

I'm not sure it would need to be "extremely expensive".

Then personally negotiate with publishers, storing ebooks you have purchased, ...

If the publishers/distributors don't want to provide the ebooks, have Congress pass a law that allows libraries (and their agents) to strip DRM and a law that allows libraries to lend ebooks; a library could than purchase the ebooks from Amazon, Kobo, ...

It all seems very doable to me... if we want it.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by eschwartz;3248609

Meanwhile, OverDrive will continue to impartially offer a catalog full of all BPH-published ebooks (and continue to mostly discriminate against Indie books), under the terms and prices agreed to by the publishers, and libraries will continue to be able to buy whatever ebooks they choose, without any filtering.



What does it matter who runs the infrastructure? You realize libraries for a long time have been paying corporations to run their backend and frontend? Whether it is their webhost or the vendor who provides the cataloging software (BiblioCommons, Polaris, etc.) it is and always has been corporations who do things for money, that provide public services the tools necessary to do their job.

Note, too, that as part of their infrastructure contract operation, Overdrive lets libraries upload and distribute ebooks they own and can legally lend out:

http://the-digital-reader.com/2016/0...ebook-catalog/

...like the ebooks from Joe Konrath's Ebooks are Forever library ebook sales business...

Or public domain ebooks from Gutenberg and elsewhere.

Sounds like the concern is more that, since Overdrive is so much more competent than its wannabe rivals, it might at some distant point in the future turn eee-vile... Not that they are actually doing anything terribly bad now but that someday they might.

Some people lose sleep over things like that, I hear.

[Tarana]

Libraries are going to change. I totally agree with you. I also think that they will continue to lend materials for you to take home because that is their MANDATE. Many, many materials are unusable in ebook form. A large proportion of the population will never migrate to ereaders completely. The real problem is illiterate politicians who want to take away funding from libraries. Many libraries in CA closed or drastically reduced hours because of the stupid decisionmaking of voters and politicians there. Fortunately, most other states did not follow the example. I'd be more concerned about that than a major corporate entity. Access restrictions are far more chilling than one corporate entity for one format.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by John F

Putting on my rose colored glasses for a possible way to eliminate Overdrive (and rearrange the quote from eschwartz for relative points) ...

Although a hurdle, it seems as coming up with an alternative lending DRM scheme doesn't seem insurmountable.

The scheme itself should be trivial, it doesn't have to be good, since most people don't know about DRM and don't care.

As for the software, start a kickstarter or some open project, endowment, ... or get government funding. Eink implementation may be a problem, but Android and IOS apps should be doable.

I'm not sure it would need to be "extremely expensive".


If the publishers/distributors don't want to provide the ebooks, have Congress pass a law that allows libraries (and their agents) to strip DRM and a law that allows libraries to lend ebooks; a library could than purchase the ebooks from Amazon, Kobo, ...

It all seems very doable to me... if we want it.

True, it can be and has been done.
But that takes a lot of time, effort, and money. There is a reason the service industry exists -- because without it, everything would be harder, less eficient, more expensive, etc...

I believe the libraries that have done it, band together in the attempt, and it is usually provoked by the comparative expense of OverDrive (and other miscellaneous contract terms) -- not fear of privacy.
You can likely save a lot of money in the long run by investing in a cooperative in-house system NOW -- and that is what they are gambling on.

And still most libraries consider it more expedient to outsource the work to OverDrive.

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Note, too, that as part of their infrastructure contract operation, Overdrive lets libraries upload and distribute ebooks they own and can legally lend out:

http://the-digital-reader.com/2016/0...ebook-catalog/

...like the ebooks from Joe Konrath's Ebooks are Forever library ebook sales business...

Or public domain ebooks from Gutenberg and elsewhere.

I was not aware of that.

Sounds like the concern is more that, since Overdrive is so much more competent than its wannabe rivals, it might at some distant point in the future turn eee-vile... Not that they are actually doing anything terribly bad now but that someday they might.

Some people lose sleep over things like that, I hear.

That's what I thought too.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Note, too, that as part of their infrastructure contract operation, Overdrive lets libraries upload and distribute ebooks they own and can legally lend out:

http://the-digital-reader.com/2016/0...ebook-catalog/

...like the ebooks from Joe Konrath's Ebooks are Forever library ebook sales business...

Or public domain ebooks from Gutenberg and elsewhere.

Sounds like the concern is more that, since Overdrive is so much more competent than its wannabe rivals, it might at some distant point in the future turn eee-vile... Not that they are actually doing anything terribly bad now but that someday they might.

Some people lose sleep over things like that, I hear.

Glad to see Joe got that going. I knew he was taking submissions. I also know that he rejects some submissions.

[rcentros]

I don't see an issue here. The Fort Worth library system (as an example) offers lots of OverDrive books and the physical (brick and mortar) library branches are busy and full -- so full that they're a pain in the neck to use. From what I can see OverDrive is augmenting the library system here, not replacing it. I guess you could argue that Fort Worth should build bigger and better library branches but that's probably never going to happen, even if OverDrive didn't exist.

[Fbone]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Sounds like the concern is more that, since Overdrive is so much more competent than its wannabe rivals, it might at some distant point in the future turn eee-vile... Not that they are actually doing anything terribly bad now but that someday they might.

Some people lose sleep over things like that, I hear.

One concern librarians have is Overdrive's annual admin costs. Reports say they have doubled and tripled in one year hamstringing library budgets. Moving from Overdrive to another company may not be desirable or possible, trapping them somewhat.