Bookbub -- are authors getting duped?

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by eggheadbooks1

I have said nothing in this thread about my own books. And I am getting the impression English may not be your first language, so you may not be understanding the nuances of my posts.

I'm not looking for your (unsolicited) advice or your alleged honesty, as you don't know the facts of my business and are unfamiliar with my books. It would be more helpful if you just stuck to the question posed, which is whether or not Bookbub's numbers/results support the hype.

English is very much my first language. The problem was/is you came in asking if Bookbub was worth it. I was reading all your posts.

I assumed you were asking to see if we thought it would be worth it to you.
Especially when you said your colleagues. Although I thought that was an odd word choice as most authors don't work in the same place.

No I don't know you or your books but that is my standard advice to new authors.
Why are you worried about Bookbub if you are not planning to use them?

As to your original question,
Apparently many authors think so or they wouldn't be getting those prices.

Now I know many authors that would say no because of the cost and that they either got turned down or didn't want to reduce their price to get a Bookbub.

See Bookbub is mostly for on sale books, In other words, you only reduce your book price for a few days.
I know one author that swears by Bookbub. He has posted his numbers on another forum.
I refuse to link the other forum for personal reasons but Google Writers Cafe. It is the one that starts with a k.

Oh and good luck with whatever you decide.

[eggheadbooks1]

Just heard back from Bookbub and this information certainly helps: the average downloads are based on an average across all price points, and average downloads at 99 cents is 70% higher than at $2.99 (and obviously somewhere between 0% and 70% higher for ebooks priced at $1.99).

I think it would help potential clients make a more informed decision if Bookbub published the average downloads per price point. I've made the suggestion to them, which is all one can do.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by eggheadbooks1

Just heard back from Bookbub and this information certainly helps: the average downloads are based on an average across all price points, and average downloads at 99 cents is 70% higher than at $2.99 (and obviously somewhere between 0% and 70% higher for ebooks priced at $1.99).

I think it would help potential clients make a more informed decision if Bookbub published the average downloads per price point. I've made the suggestion to them, which is all one can do.

I see what you wanted now.
Had you asked why do people subscribe to Bookbub, I could have told you that subscribers are looking for good deals. 99 cents is nearly always a better deal to voracious readers.

What is it with you and price points?
You will make more at $2.99 so why shouldn't they charge more for that price point?

[eggheadbooks1]

I see you have edited your initial post (I got the whole of it in my inbox);

Colleagues = other writers.
Clients = customers of Bookbub.

I am not a vanity publisher. And so what if I were, anyway? What difference would it make?

I already know why people subscribe to Bookbub.

Price points determine how much you make and therefore whether the ad is a good buy. Bookbub publish an average 980 downloads for, for example, Supernatural Suspense. But that is an average across price points, as they now tell me. If the average download rate at 99 cents is 70% higher than the average at $2.99, then the average at 99 cents is 1234 downloads. At 35% royalty, that means an average income of $431.90, which makes the cost ($360.00) more palatable. That equals a profit of $71.90 rather than a loss of $20.43.

On the other hand, the average number of downloads at $2.99 would be 726. At 70% royalty, with an Amazon delivery fee of 10 cents, that is $1468.70 in royalties. The cost is $900 for the ad. That means a profit of $568.70. So Bookbub may actually deliver a higher profit to the author selling fewer books at $2.99 than more at 99 cents.

And that is what's with me and price points. The devil is in the details.

(And which is why I suggested to Bookbub they publish averages for each price point rather than the average across price points. As you can see, the numbers are far more attractive when the details are known.)

[Cinisajoy]

Yes, I edited because I had misread your last line about clients.
I had read it as people that pay you to publish their books.

Now if you really want answers about Bookbub, this past summer they did a big question and answer thread on another forum. If you type Writers Cafe Bookbub in a search you should find it. The forum starts with a k.

And in all honesty, I am curious as to your interest in Bookbub.
But you have my opinion on advertising sites and where might be a better fit for you.

[Cinisajoy]

Oh and one math detail: average means total/number of advertisers. So some people had many more and some had less.
So you could potentially make a killer profit. Good luck again.

[BearMountainBooks]

I think there is a little bit of the "if the author does well with a bookbub ad, they can't wait to tell everyone about it." So you hear a LOT from those who love the service. Those who dare to report they didn't do as well get suggestions such as, 'Maybe you need a new cover" (note that no schlocky covers are accepted by bookbub as they claim to vet them all because they are protecting their brand.) Or you may see: "Punch up your blurb." You don't see: Maybe it was a bad day a bookbub. Maybe people didn't click through or maybe the ads aren't always effective.

This can mean that authors who then "fail" with a bookbub ad don't speak up so you end up hearing about great successes, but not those who are upset about having wasted 1000 dollars.

This isn't anything new. Those who are successful at anything tend to talk more about their success and assume all responsibility for a fabulous product and a great service. *grin* Those that don't feel as successful (whether their rate is actually successful or not in terms of profitability) decide not to speak up.

Bookbub has had an incredible run with getting clicks and buys. You can tell that is changing as there have been noticeably more complaints about the service and also their drive to get authors to fill out profiles and the fact that bookbub advertises more frequently -- to authors.

As with a lot of things, authors and publishers (the big guys use them too) those who got in early did very well. I think some of the magic is fading and that is going to put pressure on their pricing and growth.

They have tried to mitigate this somewhat by expanding their affiliate services to other retailers (a positive thing for authors). On the negative side, they have started to pressure indies to advertise more freebies and more 99 cents (turning down ads for 2.99 more often than not.)

It's a free market. It's up to authors to decide whether to take the risk with their ads.

[eggheadbooks1]

Hi Bear Mountain,

Exactly. It's the same with Kindle Select, etc -- only the successful speak up because everyone else is embarrassed by "their" failure rather than asking critical questions about the service. That's why it's important both to crunch the numbers and hear from both sides.

The thing with all sites like Bookbub is that interest always seems to fade in favour of the next flavour of the month. Remember Kindle Nation Daily? It was all the rage, everyone was fighting for a spot, and now? Not so much.

Part of the issue, too, is that the consumer zones out when they get the same email in their box every day. And I had heard several consumers complain that Bookbub is sending them books in genres the user did not ask for.

Maybe they have reached critical mass and are waning. If so, they should lower their prices and look for new ways to reach their audience.

Your comments about pressuring authors to advertise more freebies and 99 cents is interesting. I started this post by mentioning that the pricing structure itself is a form of pressure to lower one's price. What is more interesting is that, once I got the info from Bookbub about their averages, and did the math, I discovered that the author may actually be better off selling fewer books for $2.99 than more at 99 cents. But of course that is not good for Bookbub who want more click-throughs and the higher affiliate income that those click-throughs generate. So if they are rejecting more and more $2.99 books, that tells you the author-generated income is perhaps falling and/or more emphasis is now being placed on the affiliate income.

I don't see anything in what you (eggheadbooks1) have presented so far that suggests Bookbub are taking unfair advantage of authors (or, at least, no more than the many other commercial enterprises offering such services).

GMW: I was not suggesting Bookbub are taking advantage of authors; I posed the question because I think there is a lot more hype than information out there. (And I think Bear Mountain hits it squarely on the head.)

As for my "simplistic averages," Bookbub themselves rely on them as a marketing tool: you will find much mention of this in the indie marketing forums, how Bookbub publish their data when no one else does. So it is only fair to ask how the data stacks up.

[Cinisajoy]

Egghead,
By asking the way you did, as in the title of this thread. You are accusing Bookbub of taking advantage of authors.
And yes, Maria did hit the nail on the head.

I don't know if you get their emails but them and a few others now look almost identical.
There are at least 3 that if you didn't look at the top of the email, the consumer wouldn't know if they were looking at a Bookbub, an ereaderiq, or one other advertiser.

[BearMountainBooks]

Back a few years, ereaderiq was a great place to advertise and they had bookings so far out, they had to stop taking them. These days they are partnered with booksends and the ads are actually more expensive (and they aren't as effective just because readers have many more options these days). Kindle Nation Daily is another one and the list goes on. There are a BUNCH of places an author can take out ads--but they are likely hitting the same audience over and over because many readers sign up for several "Bargain" listings.

I do think bookbub is looking for new advertisers (they now run some kind of banner ad on the bottom of emails) and also trying new techniques. They have not tried lowering their price. I've run the math and long ago decided I didn't want to take the risk of trying an ad with them. That was probably a mistake, but even early on their ads were over 300 dollars a day. Had they been also listing other retailers...I'd have been more tempted. I don't know if I would have done it because that is a huge amount of money for me, but I've always been wide and think it's a great thing when advertisers also link to other retailers.

[AnnGirdharry]

Cinisajoy said

You might look into ereaderiq and ohfb.

I did look into them and a few others.
I'll be marketing a couple of my short stories with OHFB and TheFussyLibrarian this spring, prior to the launch of my novel.
Thanks for the tip, Cinisajoy