Self-Publishing & Big Five Dominate Book Market...

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

See, that last adjective is where we differ.
Yes, there is a flood of indie content coming to market. But a whole lot of it is reverted backlist. And a lot of it is simply not commercial enough to line the pockets of the BPH overlords. And lately a lot of savvy authors are simply not drinking the BPH hemlock-flavored koolaid and ramping up their careers "on their own".
And, yeah, a lot of it *is* crap, as Sturgeon said. But that also applies to tradpub titles.
Over-generalizing doesn't help your position, I fear.

With a traditionally-published author I can be pretty sure that the book won't contain spelling or grammatical errors, and that it'll be reasonably well-written. That is of course no guarantee that I'll enjoy it, but it rules out my biggest problem with self-published books: the fact that the majority have never been in the hands of a decent editor.

FWIW, check out this author:

http://www.amazon.com/Sekhmet-Bed-Sh...8030688&sr=1-3

Tastes vary but I've enjoyed a couple of hers and I rather suspect the time period might interest you.
Maybe.

Thank you - I'll check her out, although I fear that my not negligible knowledge of Egyptian history may make me somewhat intolerant of historical errors .

Thanks for your thoughts. Much appreciated.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by HarryT

With a traditionally-published author I can be pretty sure that the book won't contain spelling or grammatical errors, and that it'll be reasonably well-written. That is of course no guarantee that I'll enjoy it, but it rules out my biggest problem with self-published books: the fact that the majority have never been in the hands of a decent editor.



Thank you - I'll check her out, although I fear that my not negligible knowledge of Egyptian history may make me somewhat intolerant of historical errors .

Thanks for your thoughts. Much appreciated.

I think she did a very good job. She is one of the very professional self publishers.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

Ok you guys have got me totally confused.
Without doing an extensive search (ok technically scrolling way down on the Amazon page), how does one know a book is self published?
I just found a set of books that are published through Down Island Press. Are they self published or did they go through an actual publisher?

Or what about that one writer that had done a cookbook through either self publishing or a vanity press. She then took advantage of someone. She represented herself as a professional author to get his story so she could write a new version about his dog to hopefully make a movie. The catch was she told the guy she couldn't afford to pay him anything right now because of "costs". The book was not even proofread or edited. Yes, she put a publisher name on the book.
The reason I know about this is when I caught a very glaring error, I thought the guy it was about might not know about it so I tracked him down and called. We had a nice conversation.

So now is there an easy way to tell self-published from small press or vanity press or even the bigger publishers.
Heck if I didn't hang out in places about books I wouldn't know Baen and Tor were big.

Well, how do you know that anything went through an "actual" publisher?

Obviously, you look to find out the publisher...
And then ask yourself if you've ever heard of that publisher.


Oh, and that vanity press author was a professional author. And the only thing she "took advantage of" is peoples' natural gullibility when they hear the words "professional author" and assume it means something.

An "author" is another word for "writer", and "professional" is defined as "(of a person) engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as a pastime."

Neither says anything about how skilled they are, or who published them, (or even if they were ever published,) or how much money they make in doing so.
But by gosh, it impresses people!

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by HarryT

With a traditionally-published author I can be pretty sure that the book won't contain spelling or grammatical errors, and that it'll be reasonably well-written. That is of course no guarantee that I'll enjoy it, but it rules out my biggest problem with self-published books: the fact that the majority have never been in the hands of a decent editor.

Coincidentally, this just came up.
Know any Good Self-pub Books?

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I disagree. Discoverability is only a problem (for a reader) if they seek to limit themselves to finding "good" self-pubbed books, and/or they're in the habit of buying books from their descriptions/covers alone. There's no need to do either, IMO.


Same here. I rarely buy books at random (trad- or self-pubbed). So for me there is no discoverability problem. Mostly because I'm not focusing on finding self-pubbed books--I'm focusing on finding books. And people are throwing good ones at me left and right: some self-pubbed and some some trad-pubbed. And I don't need/want the good ones to be one or the other.

If I started selecting books to read at random, I wager it would be the same crapshoot for me in trad-pub land as it is in self-pub land. Mostly that's because I don't value competently written books that I don't like any higher than atrociously written books that I don't like.

[Sirtel]

I've reached the point where I don't particularly care whether a book is tradpub or self-published. If it seems like something I might like, I'll buy it (if the price is reasonable, of course). Yes, there is a lot of crap among self-pubs, but then there have always been many, many books I've liked not one whit among tradpubs as well. So the chance of my enjoying any purchased book is 50-50 either way (of course I use the look inside and read the reviews, at least the 2 and 3 star ones, before making a decision). A few misspellings don't bother me all that much, if the story is good. Lots of mistakes is a problem, naturally.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by HarryT

With a traditionally-published author I can be pretty sure that the book won't contain spelling or grammatical errors, and that it'll be reasonably well-written. That is of course no guarantee that I'll enjoy it, but it rules out my biggest problem with self-published books: the fact that the majority have never been in the hands of a decent editor.

I don't rank a grammatically correct book I didn't like any higher than a grammatically-horrific book I didn't like. In other words ... I would be just as disappointed to spend time and/or money on either. Great grammar and editing is no consolation prize for me when I buy a book I just can't get into. So I don't take many chances on new, traditionally--or otherwise--published authors. The new authors I choose to read come highly recommended by people whose opinions I know/trust. That way, I don't have to worry about how they got published.

I'm not on a special mission to "discover" good/great self-published books. But I'll certainly let someone else do do the legwork for me.

I'm just happy there's even more paths for good books to make it onto my radar; and I tend to leave it at that.

EDIT: Well now I feel bad. eschwartz already made my standard reply for me. Oh well, at least I'm consistent.

[fjtorres]

How to tell if a book is self published?
There is no certain way because there's dozens of ways to get published these days.
The easiest clue is when the publisher listing is the author's name. And those are growing fewer by the day for business and tax reasons.
But a whole lot of Indies publish under personal LLCs and multiple pen names while others front for friends and partners. So many names could be one person and one name could be many people.

Because of this, the term INDIE is getting currency as the more accurate term because hardly anybody publishes all by themselves; even single author operations hire proofers, editors, artists, formatters (or license professional formats), hire narrators for audio editions, and even batch print pbooks from china just like the big boys. Many hire IP lawyers and agents to negotiate foreign rights.

If you look at the Author Earnings report they have a cateory for "single author publisher" for when they aren't sure if it is a tiny tradpub startup or a front for one or more authors.

From a story standpoint it really makes no difference. The main difference is for the authors. and their pocketbooks.

[theducks]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

But I've also found a lot of total crap in the tradpub waters too.

My dead tree collection contains a number of 1 book series

Maybe it was not total cr*p (I sampled and bought it. remember when you could open and randomly browse the contents before you bought it), but stellar sales never happened and the remaining books were just dropped
That did not make them a bad book (to read).

BTW I discovered many new authors (some even hang here at MR) in the pages of Analog.
Bujold, McCaffrey, Sawyer, Asaro, Garrett ....

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Well, how do you know that anything went through an "actual" publisher?

Obviously, you look to find out the publisher...
And then ask yourself if you've ever heard of that publisher.


Oh, and that vanity press author was a professional author. And the only thing she "took advantage of" is peoples' natural gullibility when they hear the words "professional author" and assume it means something.

An "author" is another word for "writer", and "professional" is defined as "(of a person) engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as a pastime."

Neither says anything about how skilled they are, or who published them, (or even if they were ever published,) or how much money they make in doing so.
But by gosh, it impresses people!

You just made my day.
I have made a little off my cookbook.
I was also at one time a professional dancer. Was also a backup dancer when I was in high school.
Dang that makes me sound bigger than I am.
Oh and I also have had my biography published in a newsletter.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by theducks

My dead tree collection contains a number of 1 book series

Maybe it was not total cr*p (I sampled and bought it. remember when you could open and randomly browse the contents before you bought it), but stellar sales never happened and the remaining books were just dropped
That did not make them a bad book (to read).

Then that's not the *crap* I was talking about.

Although that doesn't make it any more enjoyable when an author abandons a series -- or dies.
Or one of the authors dies, and the last book won't ever get written (by the remaining author) because of a fight over the IP.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

You just made my day.
I have made a little off my cookbook.
I was also at one time a professional dancer. Was also a backup dancer when I was in high school.
Dang that makes me sound bigger than I am.
Oh and I also have had my biography published in a newsletter.

Happy to be of service, Madam professional-dancer-cum-writer.

It's not everyone who gets to have people write their biography.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Happy to be of service, Madam professional-dancer-cum-writer.

It's not everyone who gets to have people write their biography.

. Thanks again.
It all sounds grander than it really was and I have never been a "Madam".
Though that one sounds like fun.

[Fbone]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

I will admit to being lazy enough when it comes to both sides, that I usually prioritize authors whose books I have already read and enjoyed.
That does favor the tradpub side...

This is basically what I do.

Utilizing sales/promos I calculated that my average price per trad pubbed book to be under $1.35 so even the occasional dud won't set me back financially.

And I've noticed more and more self/indies pricing their books at $4.99 and up. That's probably more than I would spend for an unknown, though recommended, book.

[theducks]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Then that's not the *crap* I was talking about.

Although that doesn't make it any more enjoyable when an author abandons a series -- or dies.
Or one of the authors dies, and the last book won't ever get written (by the remaining author) because of a fight over the IP.

The author did not just up and abandon the series (it has now, years later, been self pub'd). In many cases book 2 was already written (draft, but not edited) and shelved. It is kinda hard to find another publisher when the sales history of book 1 is available

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by theducks

The author did not just up and abandon the series (it has now, years later, been self pub'd). In many cases book 2 was already written (draft, but not edited) and shelved. It is kinda hard to find another publisher when the sales history of book 1 is available

That's one of the main reasons I'm reluctant to start reading a series until it's finished. I make a few exceptions to that rule, but not many.