Microsoft announces SurfaceBook

[pl001]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

The thing many people forget is that the PC market is enormous and there is room for those kinds of fine-grained distinctions; that you can rack up big sales off of niche products and that products with seemingly small differentiation can profitably coexist and prosper independently. One size-fits-all thinking simply limits your reach.

My first thought when I first saw the modularity of the design was that they could possibly offer GPU upgrades via replacement keyboard modules or possibly a dual GPU version for high-end gaming. Or a "keyboard module" without a keyboard but with a professional-grade pad for artists. A data acquisition module for environmental sensing applications. Mix-match bases, maybe.

Once you start down the road of modularity you can come up with all sorts of interesting variations.

Modularity? You mean like being able to replace or upgrade individual parts and pieces? What a concept! Sadly, the Surface line has always been anti-modularity, in fact I'd call them disposable, even more so than iPads. With the Book, if you want a new GPU, you need a new keyboard/dock. While that may be an improvement from other Surfaces, it's not exactly what I'd consider Modular, other than the rather expensive accessories of course.

I do like the thinness of the screen. But that comes at the expense of battery life and ports while in tablet mode. Personally I could live without the ports, but tablet battery life is going to be key to making it a viable 2-in-1. So far, Windows 10 has shown underwhelming battery efficiency to say the least.

Keep in mind that Microsoft's plan with the entire Surface line has never been about sales. It's about prodding OEMs into making better Windows devices. I don't expect the Book to a huge seller, it's more of a halo device and priced accordingly. I do expect it to prompt OEMs into making similar devices, just as the original Surfaces finally have done. Windows is better positioned for this market than anything else. But they really need to get the bugs out of Windows 10 in a hurry if they want these devices to take off, it is downright terrible right now IMO and no match for iOS or Android when it comes to the mobile experience. I have really loved the ideas and concepts coming from Microsoft the past few years, but as an owner of two Surfaces I have to say their execution of the details has been atrocious. They are fortunate nobody else offers the same flexibly powerful functionality...yet.

Yawn, and a big meh....

Windows in touchscreen is useless to me. I thought it would be useful, bought a Lenovo Yoga 2 11 last summer, almost never touch the stupid screen. Why? Because Windows 10 and touchscreen just don't work out for me. I much prefer a keyboard and trackpad/mouse. Using the touchscreen equals redoing a lot of actions and slow pace. Anything that requires a lot of typing or data input is extremely frustrating and slow to accomplish on a touchscreen, regardless if it is a Win 10, ipad or Android tablet, iPhone or Android smartphone. Touchscreens just don't fit well into my computer usage. Besides, these combo tablet and laptops are such a compromise that they never do anything that well. And they cost a ridiculous amount of money. Better option is to buy a cheaper laptop and a good tablet and use whichever one you need at the moment.

[Yolina]

Originally Posted by jswinden

Yawn, and a big meh....

Windows in touchscreen is useless to me. I thought it would be useful, bought a Lenovo Yoga 2 11 last summer, almost never touch the stupid screen. Why? Because Windows 10 and touchscreen just don't work out for me. I much prefer a keyboard and trackpad/mouse. Using the touchscreen equals redoing a lot of actions and slow pace. Anything that requires a lot of typing or data input is extremely frustrating and slow to accomplish on a touchscreen, regardless if it is a Win 10, ipad or Android tablet, iPhone or Android smartphone. Touchscreens just don't fit well into my computer usage. Besides, these combo tablet and laptops are such a compromise that they never do anything that well. And they cost a ridiculous amount of money. Better option is to buy a cheaper laptop and a good tablet and use whichever one you need at the moment.

Horses for courses... I really like my SP3, does everything I need it to. I never take off the type cover but I use the touchscreen a lot. Every time I pick up the non touchscreen laptop, I keep poking at the screen expecting something to happen
Edit: I will replace that non touchscreen laptop next year, but it won't be with a SurfaceBook - doesn't quite fit my needs and although that's a business expense, the price tag is a bit ouch if you want something better than the basic model, plus I prefer to specify custom specs for the work lappy.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by pl001

Keep in mind that Microsoft's plan with the entire Surface line has never been about sales. It's about prodding OEMs into making better Windows devices.

Well, now. Prodding the OEMs, yes.
But a billion bucks per quarter is hardly chump change.
And don't downplay the strategic value of flagship products.

Anything that upstages Apple in the enterprise market is a big plus in Microsoft eyes. There are many reasons why they've been hammering Apple in their marketing, none of which are about convincing Mac users to switch.

Gee whiz Surfaces are a great way to counter the whole post-PC narrative.
As in "media tablets and phones have their uses but for productivity there is no substitute for a PC". This stuff isn't aimed at general consumers but rather at pros and enterprises. (A pen that is Wacom tablet grade isn't something you get just as a mouse substitute. But if you're a digital artist...)

(Oh, and modularity doesn't have to be at the component level. Desktop PCs have long been modular at the subsystem level: monitor, keyboard, mouse... Laptops? Not often.)

[Andanzas]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

The Surface Pro is for people that mainly want to use a tablet and do some light keyboard work.
The Surface Book is for people that want a laptop because of the attached keyboard and the extra power, but also want to use a tablet once in a while.

You are probably right, but I use my Surface Pro as a desktop computer 80% of the time. As a gaming machine it's lacking, but in all other respects I find it amazingly fast. At first I was a little bit worried about the RAM (it has only 4GB), but it hasn't been a problem so far. I am just pointing out that these machines are way more versatile than they look at first sight.

I was wondering if we would see good deals on the Surface Pro 3 now that the SP4 is here.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Andanzas

You are probably right, but I use my Surface Pro as a desktop computer 80% of the time. As a gaming machine it's lacking, but in all other respects I find it amazingly fast. At first I was a little bit worried about the RAM (it has only 4GB), but it hasn't been a problem so far. I am just pointing out that these machines are way more versatile than they look at first sight.

I was wondering if we would see good deals on the Surface Pro 3 now that the SP4 is here.

Probably.
But they've been running spot sales on them since July so they may not have too many to move if they managed inventory correctly.

[Yolina]

Originally Posted by Andanzas

I was wondering if we would see good deals on the Surface Pro 3 now that the SP4 is here.

So far the so-called offers I've seen on SP3s both at the MS UK store and at John Lewis aren't any cheaper than the offers that were available from the same places several months ago. They might discount them more closer to Xmas.

[Dulin's Books]

one of the main reasons for the hinge to not completely clamshell close is so that when you flip the display around you have anice angle to work on while drawing etc as in this pic

https://compass-ssl.surface.com/asse...e_1920_img.jpg

[DuckieTigger]

Do the phones run desktop apps? I thought Win10Mobile doesn't support desktop. Are you limited to universal apps when plugged in to docking station?

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

My first thought when I first saw the modularity of the design was that they could possibly offer GPU upgrades via replacement keyboard modules or possibly a dual GPU version for high-end gaming. Or a "keyboard module" without a keyboard but with a professional-grade pad for artists. A data acquisition module for environmental sensing applications. Mix-match bases, maybe.

Once you start down the road of modularity you can come up with all sorts of interesting variations.

Hmm, some interesting ideas here! Different bases for different needs...

And yes, we've been used to modularity in PC's, but these thin devices are difficult to open up by users (if it's even possible). If you want modularity in parts, you need size. But tablets and ultrabooks are based around the fact that you don't want size, but only power. The Book shows the way for another way for modularity.

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

Do the phones run desktop apps? I thought Win10Mobile doesn't support desktop. Are you limited to universal apps when plugged in to docking station?

No, the phones run universal apps. Those apps can be run from your phone and from your desktop. Desktop apps (built around a x86 processor) will never run on phones. Unless those phones have a x86 processor.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

No, the phones run universal apps. Those apps can be run from your phone and from your desktop. Desktop apps (built around a x86 processor) will never run on phones. Unless those phones have a x86 processor.

Intel makes Atom-based phone SOCs that are being used increasingly in Android phones. So MS *not* using them in their productivity-focused phones is a headscratcher. Given that the bulk of corporate inhouse apps (the keys to that kingdom) are legacy desktop apps, an x86 phone would be an instant success.

It's either a matter of institutional memory (the remaining Nokia staffers being wedded to ARM) or wrangling with Intel.

(Those two are always arguing. Can't live with each other, can't live without.)

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Intel makes Atom-based phone SOCs that are being used increasingly in Android phones. So MS *not* using them in their productivity-focused phones is a headscratcher. Given that the bulk of corporate inhouse apps (the keys to that kingdom) are legacy desktop apps, an x86 phone would be an instant success.

The success would depend on battery life. If you can barely last a day (working day that is), I doubt it'll be a success.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

The success would depend on battery life. If you can barely last a day (working day that is), I doubt it'll be a success.

Doesn't seem to be a big issue with the ASUS Zenphone 2.

http://www.androidauthority.com/asus...ssions-579187/

http://forums.androidcentral.com/asu...xperience.html

[Dulin's Books]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Intel makes Atom-based phone SOCs that are being used increasingly in Android phones. So MS *not* using them in their productivity-focused phones is a headscratcher. Given that the bulk of corporate inhouse apps (the keys to that kingdom) are legacy desktop apps, an x86 phone would be an instant success.

It's either

it's actually that the CURRENT Atom X3/5 do not support the display resolution or camera resolution being used in the 950/xl. see the chart

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/...-x3-x5-and-x7/

[sadievan]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

Depends on your useage. For me, a SP is fun, but beyond that, it doesn't offer me anything. Most of the time I'll have a keyboard connected. So, better for me to get a laptop. But, sometimes, I want that tablet. Maybe I'm just browsing a bit on the couch. Or I want to show pictures to friends and family.

The Surface Pro is for people that mainly want to use a tablet and do some light keyboard work.
The Surface Book is for people that want a laptop because of the attached keyboard and the extra power, but also want to use a tablet once in a while.

It sounds like you're in the first group, I'm in the second. Only the price is holding me back.

I think you are correct. I want the SP4 for more portability. I have a laptop but want something smaller, lighter for when I don't want to lug the laptop. Recently went on a trip and would have loved to have had a SP. I love my iPad, but it just isn't that good or easy for certain things.