Fraud? - Page 2

tovare · 08-17-2015, 04:56 PM

Amazon could have made their naming convention easier to grasp.

They call Paperwhite 3 the new kindle Paperwhite, and they´ve been doing the same confusing thing for years. Wahoo, it´s the new kindle.

My first kindle was "The all new kindle":

Purchasing an Apple computer is equally confusing, there´s no way to easily see that I have a "first part of 2015" Mac Book Pro.

Maverynthia · 08-17-2015, 05:05 PM

It also might count as a bait and switch. You think it's the advertised PW3 and NOPE it's a PW2.
@HarryT: It's misleading, and price gouging if you know you have PW2s and sell them for the PW3 price. They might also be tried for price gouging even if they don't know what they have. There are laws out there that prevent this kinda thing.

Overall maybe they had PW3s in stock and PW2s in the same area and ran out of PW3s and whoever it was just moved the PW2s under the big "NEW Kindle Paperwhite". While not fraud, it will leave a bad taste in people's mouth. I don't know if Sam's Club Mexico does price matching BUT SOMETIMES they'll do a price match if you buy the item and then find it for less somewhere else. Or even they might just take the item back and issue a refund if unopened.

Dr. Drib · 08-17-2015, 05:09 PM

It's absolutely the buyer's job to research the product before buying.

They're not advertising that they're selling a Paperwhite 3, so what's the problem?

If the price is too high for the product as seen, then that's the buyer's decision not to buy - or to buy.

There is nothing fraudulent for selling a product higher than the suggested retail list.

It was kind of you to let them know the differences between the models, but they're not obligated in any way to lower the price to satisfy you (or your constituents) just because you want it priced lower.

JSWolf · 08-17-2015, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soulfuldog

It's not fraud if they are just selling it as a Kindle Paperwhite, with no other details, and they can charge whatever price they like for it. It's only if they are selling it with the advertised features of the newer model that it would be fraud.

They probably aren't even aware that they aren't the latest version of Paperwhite (if they even know there are different versions), and that is thanks to Amazon not giving them specific numbers. It just makes things confusing.

While it's not fraud, it is misleading to the consumer as there is nothing about the Kindle to tell what version Paperwhite it is other than the way Kindle is displayed.

HarryT · 08-17-2015, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverynthia

@HarryT: It's misleading, and price gouging if you know you have PW2s and sell them for the PW3 price. They might also be tried for price gouging even if they don't know what they have. There are laws out there that prevent this kinda thing.

What specific law are you referring to? To the best of my knowledge, unless you're in a monopoly situation (which is clearly not the case here) a retailer is free to set any price they wish for any product, just as a customer is free to choose whether or not to buy it.

Cinisajoy · 08-17-2015, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Any store does. The store offers a product; the customer decides whether or not to buy it. It certainly isn't the store's job to tell you that a newer model is available or that you can buy it cheaper elsewhere.

You mean it is not Walmart's responsibility to let me know that HEB (another grocery story) has bread flour 40 cents cheaper.

pidgeon92 · 08-17-2015, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

You mean it is not Walmart's responsibility to let me know that HEB (another grocery story) has bread flour 40 cents cheaper.

Precisely. And you'll also find that the same store in a different part of your town/state/country may very well have a different price for the exact same item.

Cinisajoy · 08-17-2015, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pidgeon92

Precisely. And you'll also find that the same store in a different part of your town/state/country may very well have a different price for the exact same item.

That happens all the time at our 4 walmarts. Was 4 is now 3. One is closed for plumbing problems.

tovare · 08-17-2015, 07:39 PM

I don´t think pricing is an issue here, just inept salesmanship.

patrickt · 08-17-2015, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

You mean it is not Walmart's responsibility to let me know that HEB (another grocery story) has bread flour 40 cents cheaper.

As an analogy that one totally fails. Does Walmart have a responsibility to notify customers that the Kindle they're selling for the price of a Paperwhite 3 is not a Paperwhite 3. I think they do. But, I'm not a liberal.

patrickt · 08-17-2015, 08:27 PM

I honestly don't know. If next Sunday, the Kindle is a fair price for a Paperwhite 2 then I'll assume Sam's Club is an honest retailer. If it isn't, I'll assume they're dishonest. I doubt the Sam's Club management knows any more about Kindles than does the average shopper.

I do know that people who bought what they thought was a Paperwhite 3 and learned when the updates hit that theirs wasn't a Paperwhite 3 were not happy and it was the store they held responsible.

Cinisajoy · 08-17-2015, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickt

I honestly don't know. If next Sunday, the Kindle is a fair price for a Paperwhite 2 then I'll assume Sam's Club is an honest retailer. If it isn't, I'll assume they're dishonest. I doubt the Sam's Club management knows any more about Kindles than does the average shopper.

I do know that people who bought what they thought was a Paperwhite 3 and learned when the updates hit that theirs wasn't a Paperwhite 3 were not happy and it was the store they held responsible.

Did the sign say "Paperwhite 3"? If not, then they were not advertising 3's.
If Amazon sold those paperwhite's to Sam's, then Sam's could sell them for whatever they wanted.
Unless they specifically said the customer was buying a 3, then there is no fraud.

You know there is a very easy way to handle this. If you find the behavior unethical, then might I recommend you quit supporting Sam's and Amazon. That is the only way a business knows you have a problem with them.
Vote with your wallet.

For what it's worth, people sell things all the time for more than they paid for them.

Cinisajoy · 08-17-2015, 08:43 PM

Also, did you return the Paperwhite for a refund?

howyoudoin · 08-17-2015, 08:55 PM

Go ask the salesman whether the model they have on sale is the latest and newest model of kindle.

If they answer yes, then that's fraud.

patrickt · 08-17-2015, 09:13 PM

The manager I talked to said it was a Paperwhite. She had no idea there was more than one. Most people don't.

I the question about returning a Kindle for a refund was directed at me, I have no idea what you're talking about.

08-17-2015, 05:09 PM	#18
Dr. Drib Grand Sorcerer Posts: 45,358 Karma: 59451559 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Peru Device: KINDLE: Oasis 3, Scribe (1st), Matcha; KOBO: Libra 2, Libra Colour	It's absolutely the buyer's job to research the product before buying. They're not advertising that they're selling a Paperwhite 3, so what's the problem? If the price is too high for the product as seen, then that's the buyer's decision not to buy - or to buy. There is nothing fraudulent for selling a product higher than the suggested retail list. It was kind of you to let them know the differences between the models, but they're not obligated in any way to lower the price to satisfy you (or your constituents) just because you want it priced lower. Last edited by Dr. Drib; 08-17-2015 at 05:14 PM.

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08-17-2015, 04:56 PM	#16
tovare Addict Posts: 221 Karma: 1133312 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Oslo/Norway Device: PRS-600, Kindle kb Wifi, new Kindle NT, PW2, Kindle Oasis	Amazon could have made their naming convention easier to grasp. They call Paperwhite 3 the new kindle Paperwhite, and they´ve been doing the same confusing thing for years. Wahoo, it´s the new kindle. My first kindle was "The all new kindle": Purchasing an Apple computer is equally confusing, there´s no way to easily see that I have a "first part of 2015" Mac Book Pro.

08-17-2015, 05:05 PM	#17
Maverynthia Enthusiast Posts: 47 Karma: 10 Join Date: May 2011 Device: Samsung Galaxy 3 8.0 /Samsung Galaxy S5 / PC	It also might count as a bait and switch. You think it's the advertised PW3 and NOPE it's a PW2. @HarryT: It's misleading, and price gouging if you know you have PW2s and sell them for the PW3 price. They might also be tried for price gouging even if they don't know what they have. There are laws out there that prevent this kinda thing. Overall maybe they had PW3s in stock and PW2s in the same area and ran out of PW3s and whoever it was just moved the PW2s under the big "NEW Kindle Paperwhite". While not fraud, it will leave a bad taste in people's mouth. I don't know if Sam's Club Mexico does price matching BUT SOMETIMES they'll do a price match if you buy the item and then find it for less somewhere else. Or even they might just take the item back and issue a refund if unopened.

08-17-2015, 07:39 PM	#24
tovare Addict Posts: 221 Karma: 1133312 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Oslo/Norway Device: PRS-600, Kindle kb Wifi, new Kindle NT, PW2, Kindle Oasis	I don´t think pricing is an issue here, just inept salesmanship.

08-17-2015, 08:27 PM	#26
patrickt Wizard Posts: 1,221 Karma: 8381518 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Oaxaca, Mexico Device: Paperwhite 4 X 2	I honestly don't know. If next Sunday, the Kindle is a fair price for a Paperwhite 2 then I'll assume Sam's Club is an honest retailer. If it isn't, I'll assume they're dishonest. I doubt the Sam's Club management knows any more about Kindles than does the average shopper. I do know that people who bought what they thought was a Paperwhite 3 and learned when the updates hit that theirs wasn't a Paperwhite 3 were not happy and it was the store they held responsible.

08-17-2015, 08:43 PM	#28
Cinisajoy Just a Yellow Smiley. Posts: 19,161 Karma: 83862859 Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Texas Device: K4, K5, fire, kobo, galaxy	Also, did you return the Paperwhite for a refund?

08-17-2015, 08:55 PM	#29
howyoudoin how YOU doin? Posts: 1,100 Karma: 7371047 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: India Device: Kindle Keyboard, iPad Pro 10.5”, Kobo Aura H2O, Kobo Libra 2	Go ask the salesman whether the model they have on sale is the latest and newest model of kindle. If they answer yes, then that's fraud.

08-17-2015, 09:13 PM	#30
patrickt Wizard Posts: 1,221 Karma: 8381518 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Oaxaca, Mexico Device: Paperwhite 4 X 2	The manager I talked to said it was a Paperwhite. She had no idea there was more than one. Most people don't. I the question about returning a Kindle for a refund was directed at me, I have no idea what you're talking about.

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