Ebook taxes called unfair by publishers

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by maddz

The problem is when you've been collecting for 40+ years, there's an awful lot you can only find at rather silly prices - when they have been digitised in the first place. A lot of books I got back in the 70s just aren't available as an ebook.

Same here, although more and more back catalogue stuff is appearing. "SF Gateway" in particular are publishing a lot of long out-of-print SF and fantasy classics.

[maddz]

Just been looking at getting digital copies of some of the Kate Elliott doorstops I have... I think I'll wait until the prices come down - I am not paying mass market paperback prices for them.

SF Gateway? I think I chose not to use them because they're all Adobe DRM downloads which doesn't work very well with Macs (when it works in the first place - I've heard some horror stories). I'll tolerate the pdf reader on a work PC, but I won't otherwise touch Adobe software with a bargepole.

[HarryT]

Easiest thing (IMHO) is to buy from Amazon, download with Kindle for PC/Mac, and then use Calibre and Alf's tools. You're missing out on probably the biggest publisher of backlist SF and fantasy if you rule out SF Gateway.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Same here, although more and more back catalogue stuff is appearing. "SF Gateway" in particular are publishing a lot of long out-of-print SF and fantasy classics.

If only they had the US rights to all those books. I still have some old Poul Anderson (specifically the Last Viking series and Three Hearts and Three Lions), Issac Asimov, Fletcher Pratt and et al on my ebook buy list.

[maddz]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Easiest thing (IMHO) is to buy from Amazon, download with Kindle for PC/Mac, and then use Calibre and Alf's tools. You're missing out on probably the biggest publisher of backlist SF and fantasy if you rule out SF Gateway.

That's what I usually do, and everything gets backed up. My issue is that I won't touch ADE books in the first place which means I use Amazon not the SF Gateway direct to make my purchases. The hoops I have to jump through to get the actual digital file aren't worth it, and I read across multiple devices not just one (although side-lined content on the iPad is a bit fiddly).

[HarryT]

Unfortunately the majority of books that SF Gateway sell can't be sold to people in the U.S. because they don't have the U.S. rights to them.

[meeera]

Originally Posted by maddz

SF Gateway? I think I chose not to use them because they're all Adobe DRM downloads which doesn't work very well with Macs (when it works in the first place - I've heard some horror stories).

Been doing ADE on my Mac, and stripping it, for years. On an ancient ADE install at that. Happy to help troubleshoot.

[maddz]

Thanks for the offer, but as I don't have any install of ADE, I suspect any downloader I find will be for one of the later versions where you can't always strip it. I'll stick with Amazon, Baen, Tor and various indie publishers - they'll furnish me enough reading materiel for the next few years. Heck, I haven't managed to read my way through the various Baen CD-ROMs yet (probably because there's only so much military SF I can stomach in one sitting).

[meeera]

Originally Posted by maddz

Thanks for the offer, but as I don't have any install of ADE, I suspect any downloader I find will be for one of the later versions where you can't always strip it. I'll stick with Amazon, Baen, Tor and various indie publishers - they'll furnish me enough reading materiel for the next few years. Heck, I haven't managed to read my way through the various Baen CD-ROMs yet (probably because there's only so much military SF I can stomach in one sitting).

There are a couple of older versions here

http://www.adobe.com/support/digital...downloads.html

and here

http://www.epubsoft.com/soft/adobe-d...s-for-mac.html

[GERGE]

We have the same VAT here with both ebooks and pbooks, %8. No other tax. Some of the foreign stores aren't paying the tax to the government and that is a problem.

Google Play Books adds the tax to the price and gives government her portion, so I try to buy mainly from them because of that this days.

Generally speaking, I don't understand why people would try to escape from fair taxes. You went to the public school, didn't you? If you didn't, I am sure you at least got some medical services, or used the roads, or just took advantage of some of the government services you are not paying directly for. This has nothing to the with political ideas or patriotism, I am an anarchist myself politically. But I am living here, this means I have agreed to pay for the benefit I am enjoying. Tip for tap, you know?

But, I am not saying that a tax can't be unfair, and people have every right to complain about it. But e-books are very new, our laws relating to the taxing of ebooks are just changed last year. Give it some time; meanwhile, find some truly unfair taxes to complain about.

[HarryT]

Moderator Notice
Please take discussions of taxation to the "Politics and Religion" forum. They are inappropriate here.

Thank you.

[patrickt]

The notion of rights to publish by country has to go. It's an anachronism that must die. I'm dreadfully sorry if that means most of the old publishing house die. The business has done well for them but not for us.

A fair tax. What a bizarre idea.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by patrickt

The notion of rights to publish by country has to go.

Can't be done. The copyright holder has the absolute right to grant the right to copy to whomsoever, and with whatever restrictions, they wish. If they decide to grant me the right to only sell their book to people called "Smith", then that is absolutely their right. It's completely irrelevant whether or not you, me, or anyone else agrees with their decision or thinks that they're completely nuts.

[fjtorres]

What these publishers are grumbling about is the impact the disparate tax policies have on the mainstreaming/maturation of the ebook markets in their country. Not the fact that they are being taxed.

Ebooks are a very high margin product compared to print books so, on a purely business/economic basis you would expect publishers to want to maximize those sales. Most arguments against going all-in on ebooks come from non-economic issues like channel conflict or perceived value-add to their suppliers.

A secondary issue for publishers in non-English speaking countries is that they not only compete with local publishers but also with the Global English ebook catalog at Amazon, Kobo, iTunes, and Google. Especially the cheap titles from Indie publishers which put them at a double disadvantage: not only are there few ebook readers in their countries (which makes ebooks less profitable than they could be, given the abundance of smartphones and tablets) they also have to compete with much cheaper titles from abroad.

As the realization spreads that ebooks are not at all a fad the need to tap into that potential market becomes increasingly important. And it will inevitably force publishers to deal with the channel conflict side. That is unavoidable.

A classic story from the 1990's tech industry:
In the early 90's, Bill Gates wanted to promote the use of CD-ROM as a content distribution mechanism ($0.25 CDs being cheaper and more reliable than 7-10 floppies) so he needed an incentive to get people to buy CD-ROM drives for their PCs. One incentive was the MS BOOKSHELF reference bundle. Another was the MPC spec for gaming, edutainment, and interactive ebooks on CD. But what he really needed was a multimedia encyclopedia to highlight the added value of MPC.
So Mr Gates went to Britannica, hat in hand, begging for a non-exclusive, highly restrictive license to their text for a CD-ROM edition at Microsoft expense under the Britannica brand.
No deal.
The upfront money was tempting. The high royalties less so because they didn't expect many to sell. The hangup was channel conflict: the bulk of Britannica sales were through door-to-door salesmen and they were afraid to annoy them just for a few thousand techie sales.

Off to World Book went Gates.
Same story.

Grolier, ditto. (Plus they had a text-only deal with Digital Research that wasn't making much money. Doubly disinterested.)

Down the list he went until he finally found an encyclopedia publisher willing to deal: Funk & Wagnalls, the "pulp publisher" of the business. Not a name to put on a $400 product so he bought a no strings copy of the text and put together an in-house team to build him a quality encyclopedia. Turned out there was no shortage of available exitors and researchers because the print encyclopedia companies had been "streamlining" operations.

In 2003, MS ENCARTA was born. It sold modestly as expected but it made for great demos at PC stores. Then EGGHEAD approached MS with an offer to do a launch promo for Encarta at $129. Just to raise awareness. MS agreed to a fixed number of units.
They sold out within days.
The deal was extended.
$129 became the regular street price.
Then the PC vendors came asking about a bundle deal.
Soon Encarta was everywhere.
A billion dollar a year business that lasted a decade.

The smaller encyclopedia vendors vanished practically overnight; some sold their texts to MS and they ended up enhancing Encarta. Britannica and World Book made deals with IBM and Netscape that were far less favorable than the sweet deal MS had offered. They were barely also-rans.

And the oh-so important door-to-door channel? Poof.
Encarta was everywhere, from Egghead to Walmart.

Technology disruptions aren't pretty but they are more often than not irresistible.
You either join up or suffer.

Betting the farm on the old ways often leads to losing the farm.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Can't be done. The copyright holder has the absolute right to grant the right to copy to whomsoever, and with whatever restrictions, they wish. If they decide to grant me the right to only sell their book to people called "Smith", then that is absolutely their right. It's completely irrelevant whether or not you, me, or anyone else agrees with their decision or thinks that they're completely nuts.

Uh-huh.
They absolutely have that right.
But the biggest publishers are starting to insist on all world rights or no deal.

A more rational will *eventually* evolve but not soon, probably on a global language by language basis.