EPUB to MOBI, kindle shows extra space after quotation mark - Page 2

DaleDe · 11-03-2015, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnargnar

Just tried that. No dice.

It should work if you side load the file but not if you send it through Amazon.

DaleDe · 11-03-2015, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnargnar

Converting to "both" mobi worked! Thank you so much.

Great, but of course the file is now twice as big or more likely three times as big.

Dale

eschwartz · 11-03-2015, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleDe

It should work if you side load the file but not if you send it through Amazon.

It should NOT work if you sideload the file.

It is still an AZW3, and the Kindle knows it is an AZW3, and renaming it to MOBI would not make the Kindle treat it as a MOBI.

And if it did treat it as a MOBI, you'd be in big trouble, since the book would be unreadable as a MOBI -- that's why it's an AZW3.

Renaming files to trick software into thinking it is something it isn't is IMHO a terrible idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleDe

Great, but of course the file is now twice as big or more likely three times as big.

Dale

No it isn't.
As I said in the first place, Amazon will only send the AZW3 component.
It works exactly the same as a published book does.

The fact that Amazon is storing both an AZW3 and a MOBI, is not something the consumer should care about.

LoganW · 01-07-2016, 09:35 AM

eschwartz
Thanks for the suggestion of doing dual for the .mobi output.

I was having this same issue, but going from just a regular html document and trying to output .mobi and was seeing bizarre spacing in between whenever quotations marks and a capital C appeared. Was driving me crazy!

And yes, outputting AZW3 wasn't a good option because I can't download/sync between multiple devices. I wasn't aware of this dual-format option so really good information to know. Definitely using this from now on.

eschwartz · 01-07-2016, 10:08 AM

You're welcome, happy to help.

Always good to know these old threads still get some use, helping people with pre-existing solutions rather than going through the same story again... so thank you for posting.

LoganW · 01-11-2016, 10:54 AM

Perhaps I spoke too soon, the problem still shows up in the copy Amazon sent me. Based on my own tests, it's possible the "new" version wasn't sent to me. I use a Kindle Paperwhite 2.5 (4GB of storage) and have firmware version 5.6.5.
I did some tests:

Code:

<html><body>
"Calvin said so." 
<p>
Enter the "Kraken".
</body></html>

Converted with Calibre to a .mobi (old format) looks alright, but with the quotes being really just hash marks (as shown in the code).

However, select the "smarten punctuation" and old .mobi and the output is:

" Calvin said so."
Enter the " Kraken".

Try to convert to a .mobi (new format) and it says the file is corrupt (so it's possible that when I mailed the "both" file to myself, it mailed the older version because it wasn't "corrupt").

Converting to a AZW3 and the smarten quotation and the output looks exactly as expected, the only problem being you can't email it to yourself.

Interestingly, I sent the old .mobi format with the smarten punctuation to my wife's older Kindle Touch and everything looked fine. It's just strange that this problem only appears between quotation marks and a capital C or K, and only when smart punctuation is on. Perhaps this is a bug with how the Paperwhite views older .mobi files?

eschwartz · 01-11-2016, 10:56 AM

Double-check which file you emailed to Amazon.

LoganW · 01-11-2016, 11:02 AM

I definitely emailed the "both" file, because it was double the size of either one by itself.

I just found this thread on Reddit which indicates this is a problem with the Bookerly font:

https://www.reddit.com/r/kindle/comm...pacing_issues/

Sure enough, using an old .mobi, smarten punctuation, and any font other than Bookerly and there is no issue.

eschwartz · 01-11-2016, 11:36 AM

Well, forgot about that linked MR thread.

Although it *should* be a problem only with MOBI?

Is the actual file delivered to your Kindle an AZW3? Because that is just weird...

LoganW · 01-11-2016, 12:09 PM

What was delivered was a AZW file, not an AZW3.

eschwartz · 01-11-2016, 01:07 PM

AZW ==> Amazon-delivered mobi7

Amazon didn't like that dual-MOBI for some reason.
(Examine the emailed copy with KindleUnpack? Run validation checks on original in Sigil Flightcrew/calibre Editor/Epubcheck? Reconvert? *Might* fix it, but it's difficult to debug Amazon's input channels...)

Oh well, if you are all right with avoiding Bookerly it might not be worth pursuing the problem.

kovidgoyal · 01-11-2016, 02:38 PM

IIRC you need to turn off justification as well as converting to azw3. There is an option to do that in the look & feel section of the conversion dialog (Text justification: Left align). As far as I could tell some versions of Kindle firmware think that inserting spaces between curly opening quotes and the letters C, K and r is an acceptable technique for justification. I vaguely recall someone saying that turning off justification causes the spaces to disappear.

Notjohn · 01-12-2016, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Double-check which file you emailed to Amazon.

In such tests, I put the date on the title page, like this for today: 011216

Note that if you specify left-aligned, we are violating one of Amazon's "rules" (see the Publishing Guidelines https://kindlegen.s3.amazonaws.com/A...Guidelines.pdf ). Same if we specify justification. I always do the latter, because I want the book to look professional when viewed on the Look Inside sample, but it's wise to know that it's against the Guidelines and may come back to bite us some day.

LoganW · 02-04-2016, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kovidgoyal

As far as I could tell some versions of Kindle firmware think that inserting spaces between curly opening quotes and the letters C, K and r is an acceptable technique for justification. I vaguely recall someone saying that turning off justification causes the spaces to disappear.

Thanks Kovid, turning off justification did do that but the left align wasn't the ideal solution. On the bright side, it appears that this most recent firmware version has corrected the issue (for the Paperwhite 2 at least).

By the way, thanks for your superb program. I use it constantly and am not even aware of most of its potential. I really appreciate it.

dgatwood · 02-05-2016, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoganW

Perhaps I spoke too soon, the problem still shows up in the copy Amazon sent me. Based on my own tests, it's possible the "new" version wasn't sent to me. I use a Kindle Paperwhite 2.5 (4GB of storage) and have firmware version 5.6.5.
I did some tests:

Code:

<html><body>
"Calvin said so." 
<p>
Enter the "Kraken".
</body></html>

Converted with Calibre to a .mobi (old format) looks alright, but with the quotes being really just hash marks (as shown in the code).

However, select the "smarten punctuation" and old .mobi and the output is:

" Calvin said so."
Enter the " Kraken".

Sounds like a bug in Calibre. With that said, that's seriously bad source HTML:

1. All text in HTML must be in a block element, e.g. a <p> tag.
2. All block elements must be closed (</p>).

I wouldn't be surprised if that caused Calibre's parser to vomit.

01-11-2016, 10:54 AM	#21
LoganW Enthusiast Posts: 34 Karma: 10 Join Date: Nov 2015 Device: Kindle Touch, Paperwhite, Voyage, Oasis 2	Perhaps I spoke too soon, the problem still shows up in the copy Amazon sent me. Based on my own tests, it's possible the "new" version wasn't sent to me. I use a Kindle Paperwhite 2.5 (4GB of storage) and have firmware version 5.6.5. I did some tests: Code: <html><body> "Calvin said so." <p> Enter the "Kraken". </body></html> Converted with Calibre to a .mobi (old format) looks alright, but with the quotes being really just hash marks (as shown in the code). However, select the "smarten punctuation" and old .mobi and the output is: " Calvin said so." Enter the " Kraken". Try to convert to a .mobi (new format) and it says the file is corrupt (so it's possible that when I mailed the "both" file to myself, it mailed the older version because it wasn't "corrupt"). Converting to a AZW3 and the smarten quotation and the output looks exactly as expected, the only problem being you can't email it to yourself. Interestingly, I sent the old .mobi format with the smarten punctuation to my wife's older Kindle Touch and everything looked fine. It's just strange that this problem only appears between quotation marks and a capital C or K, and only when smart punctuation is on. Perhaps this is a bug with how the Paperwhite views older .mobi files?

01-11-2016, 01:07 PM	#26
eschwartz Ex-Helpdesk Junkie Posts: 19,421 Karma: 85400180 Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Beaten Path, USA, Roundworld, This Side of Infinity Device: Kindle Touch fw5.3.7 (Wifi only)	AZW ==> Amazon-delivered mobi7 Amazon didn't like that dual-MOBI for some reason. (Examine the emailed copy with KindleUnpack? Run validation checks on original in Sigil Flightcrew/calibre Editor/Epubcheck? Reconvert? Might fix it, but it's difficult to debug Amazon's input channels...) Oh well, if you are all right with avoiding Bookerly it might not be worth pursuing the problem. Last edited by eschwartz; 01-11-2016 at 01:10 PM.

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01-07-2016, 09:35 AM	#19
LoganW Enthusiast Posts: 34 Karma: 10 Join Date: Nov 2015 Device: Kindle Touch, Paperwhite, Voyage, Oasis 2	eschwartz Thanks for the suggestion of doing dual for the .mobi output. I was having this same issue, but going from just a regular html document and trying to output .mobi and was seeing bizarre spacing in between whenever quotations marks and a capital C appeared. Was driving me crazy! And yes, outputting AZW3 wasn't a good option because I can't download/sync between multiple devices. I wasn't aware of this dual-format option so really good information to know. Definitely using this from now on.

01-07-2016, 10:08 AM	#20
eschwartz Ex-Helpdesk Junkie Posts: 19,421 Karma: 85400180 Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Beaten Path, USA, Roundworld, This Side of Infinity Device: Kindle Touch fw5.3.7 (Wifi only)	You're welcome, happy to help. Always good to know these old threads still get some use, helping people with pre-existing solutions rather than going through the same story again... so thank you for posting.

01-11-2016, 10:56 AM	#22
eschwartz Ex-Helpdesk Junkie Posts: 19,421 Karma: 85400180 Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Beaten Path, USA, Roundworld, This Side of Infinity Device: Kindle Touch fw5.3.7 (Wifi only)	Double-check which file you emailed to Amazon.

01-11-2016, 11:02 AM	#23
LoganW Enthusiast Posts: 34 Karma: 10 Join Date: Nov 2015 Device: Kindle Touch, Paperwhite, Voyage, Oasis 2	I definitely emailed the "both" file, because it was double the size of either one by itself. I just found this thread on Reddit which indicates this is a problem with the Bookerly font: https://www.reddit.com/r/kindle/comm...pacing_issues/ Sure enough, using an old .mobi, smarten punctuation, and any font other than Bookerly and there is no issue.

01-11-2016, 11:36 AM	#24
eschwartz Ex-Helpdesk Junkie Posts: 19,421 Karma: 85400180 Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Beaten Path, USA, Roundworld, This Side of Infinity Device: Kindle Touch fw5.3.7 (Wifi only)	Well, forgot about that linked MR thread. Although it should be a problem only with MOBI? Is the actual file delivered to your Kindle an AZW3? Because that is just weird...

01-11-2016, 12:09 PM	#25
LoganW Enthusiast Posts: 34 Karma: 10 Join Date: Nov 2015 Device: Kindle Touch, Paperwhite, Voyage, Oasis 2	What was delivered was a AZW file, not an AZW3.

01-11-2016, 02:38 PM	#27
kovidgoyal creator of calibre Posts: 45,364 Karma: 27230406 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Mumbai, India Device: Various	IIRC you need to turn off justification as well as converting to azw3. There is an option to do that in the look & feel section of the conversion dialog (Text justification: Left align). As far as I could tell some versions of Kindle firmware think that inserting spaces between curly opening quotes and the letters C, K and r is an acceptable technique for justification. I vaguely recall someone saying that turning off justification causes the spaces to disappear.

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