Adult ebooks not to be sold before 10 p.m in Germany

[DiapDealer]

No one's suggesting German retailers ignore the law, Harry. We're just counting the many different things that make that law stupid and ineffectual.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

No, what I snark about is the politicians pretending tha5 passing a law burdening the retailers achieves anything meaningful.

Are there no laws restricting the sale of pornography in the US? (I imagine it would vary from state to state, wouldn't it?) In the UK, for example, hard-core pornography can only be sold in specifically-licensed sex shops.

[ingmar]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It only applies to sales from German retailers. Ie between 2200 and 0600 German time.

Actually it only applies to "broadcasting" such material before 10 p.m. This clearly has TV in mind, but apparently applies to ebooks and other media as well.
Which is ridiculous, really, since the scope is very, very broad: this does not only apply to your run-of-the-mill pornography, but also (otherwise legal, mind you) works that are contemptuous of certain (racial and other) groups, glorify war, trivialize nazi crimes, show scenes of gratuitous violence or cruelty, including people dying or being subject to severe corporal or mental suffering (provided it's a true story and certain exceptions don't apply) or, finally, works which may serve as a how-to for willful damage to property or malicious mischief. This list is not exhaustive.

Originally Posted by crich70

Are they going to be able to be sure that someone they sell to isn't still a minor in the eyes of the law? Just because a kid is supposed to be at home in bed doesn't mean they will be. And someone always comes along selling fake ID's as well.

True, and they are way stricter with porn. Mail-order porn is a federal crime in Germany, and it's very difficult for German adult websites to stay legal (and in business).

Originally Posted by drjenkins

I presume they use a credit card number to "prove" you are an adult. No minor child has ever found their parent's credit card number.

No. The vendor must make sure that only legal adults have access to pornographic material. This usually means a face-to-face check in some store or other (or perhaps the post office? I have no idea) presenting an official picture ID.

Originally Posted by HarryT

OK, but given the fact that this law does actually exist, what do you think German retailers should do? Ignore it?

I don't know, but it is somewhat ridiculous: they are applying a law that was meant for TV ("broadcast times") to other "media services" as well, including ebooks. Does it serve a legitimate purpose? I'm not even sure of that. My kids are small, but as a parent I bear some responsibility for what they read. I don't let them watch TV shows for which they're too young, either. It's just that I don't need Big Brother's laws for that.

[ucfgrad93]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Some laws are placebos.
Or posturing: "We're doing something!"

Agreed, that is all this law is.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Are there no laws restricting the sale of pornography in the US? (I imagine it would vary from state to state, wouldn't it?) In the UK, for example, hard-core pornography can only be sold in specifically-licensed sex shops.

Yup.
And most are ineffective at keeping porn out of the hands of "excitable" teenagers.
(And that is without even bringing in all the free online porn.)

I'm not singling out german politicians, here.

[susan_cassidy]

How is this possibly going to work for Amazon? They have no way, as far as I know, to distinguish porn from other books. Also, one man's porn is another man's somewhat racy. How do you distinguish?

[HarryT]

I'm pretty sure that Amazon don't sell pornography - at least Amazon UK don't sell material that would be legally classed as such in the UK. They sell erotica, but not pornography.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I'm pretty sure that Amazon don't sell pornography - at least Amazon UK don't sell material that would be legally classed as such in the UK. They sell erotica, but not pornography.

Some people find it hard to distinguish.
Others draw the line at what *they* like: if they like it it's erotica, if they don't it's porn.

[dickloraine]

This shows how the BPjM works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehz7bNK70FA
Be sure to skip to 5:40, where they test a computer game

[whitearrow]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Are there no laws restricting the sale of pornography in the US? (I imagine it would vary from state to state, wouldn't it?) In the UK, for example, hard-core pornography can only be sold in specifically-licensed sex shops.

That first requires defining a work as pornography. That's pretty easy when it comes to video -- much more tricky when it comes to a purely written work. I don't know of any state that -- at least as a practical matter -- has, in recent history, cracked down on books for obscenity. Most, regardless of how explicit, are classed as "erotica." If it doesn't have photos in it, it's very unlikely to be prosecuted. Amazon in the US sells books that are pretty much sex scene following a sex scene following another sex scene. If you aren't going to call those pornography, I'm not sure what qualifies. They sell to anyone with an account, who, by definition, is 18 or older.

[Turtle91]

Amazon actually sells to anyone who opens an account and automatically clicks on their ToS...or...anyone who has access to an account (doesn't have to be theirs).

Erotica is pornography of the mind. When you read you create your own images...

How can a German online retailer determine the time zone of the purchaser...or any international online retailer determine that the purchaser is subject to the laws of Germany? Bottom line: I agree with fjtorres...this law is a placebo.

[dickloraine]

To be fair: until that law case nobody did this. But it is just the same as adult games and movies must be saled online in germany. The time restriction was mainly thought for tv. But this is just one way of confirming to the law albeit the easiest. And it is far as I know restricted to adult material that is not that "bad". Things that are classified higher can't be saled in that fashion.
You can confirm to the law also by restricting the entry to that content to adults. But barriers for that are high, since it requires that it is not easily circumvented (no credit card etc. one way would be post ident and a seperate password). Adult material send by mail requires that the mailman sees the passport.
For not that high indexed content it is simply easier to restrict sales by time (that is of course ridiculous and even circumvents the intents of the law).
In reality it is a little bit absurd and the sytem is critized a lot (most of course by gamers and movie fans) . Unfortunately this law is mainly governed by the states and changing something were all states and the central government is concerned and nobody sees it as that important is very difficult.

[dickloraine]

Oh, and a short correction on the original article: As far as I know, you can only show/sell content restricted to age 16+ from 22:00 for stuff 18+ you have to wait until 23:00

[murg]

Originally Posted by dickloraine

Oh, and a short correction on the original article: As far as I know, you can only show/sell content restricted to age 16+ from 22:00 for stuff 18+ you have to wait until 23:00

So I presume that Netflix Germany (whenever it gets established) can only stream shows or movies rated as such between the legally mandated hours...

[dickloraine]

I don't know. But as said above, if they have restrictions to only allow adults to see that content, then you can watch whenever you like. I think pay tv is that way too. I don't know if it would be enough to restrict the use of netflix for adults or if they would need to make a special adult section inside their app. The time restriction is thought for cases where there is no age check, like tv.