Literary Brideshead Revisited by Evelyn Waugh

[Bookpossum]

Interesting points, Hamlet53 and fisher.

I certainly "read between the lines" and thought that Charles and Sebastian were in a homosexual relationship in their gilded youth. The conversation Charles has with Cara when they were in Venice certainly implied that it was okay to be in such a relationship when young, but not later. But I agree, Charles' relationship is really with the various members of the Marchmain family.

I agree bfisher: Waugh loved the dignity and grandeur of the aristocracy's way of life as well as that of his chosen religion, and mourned its passing in both. All very nice, as long as you were part of the rich aristocracy, rather than of the mundane masses represented by Hooper!

[Bookworm_Girl]

My reading progress is slow due to too much travel this month! I'm more than halfway through now. It's interesting to read a book after seeing its theatrical presentation. I usually try to read the book first. I wasn't too captivated with the book initially. My perspective could have been influenced because I read the first 40% or so on long-haul flights between the US & England and couldn't properly concentrate.

However, starting with Book 2, I am getting more drawn into it. I really like the writing style; it is certainly beautiful. I will definitely seek out more books by Waugh in the future. I was thinking that I initially had the same response to Kazuo Ishiguro's Remains of the Day which grew on me slowly after we read it, and I have since read other books by him.

[Bookpossum]

Waugh's trilogy called Sword of Honour is his other great masterpiece I think, but I loved all his books. For complete hilarity, it's hard to go past Scoop.

[bfisher]

I read his "The Loved One" when I was 15, and thought it quite funny at the time. Since reading Brideshead Revisited, I feel motivated to give it a reread 47 years on. I've had the Sword of Honour trilogy on my TBR for some time.

Scoop sounds like a whack at Northcliffe or Beaverbrook, and possibly delicious. Thanks for the recommendation.

[bfisher]

The version I read was published by Little, Brown. I am uncertain if this is a revised version. If anyone has the original (1944) version, can they confirm if it contains the following text from the second page:

… Hooper, my newest-joined platoon commander, grudged them their life of privilege: “Hitler would put them in a gas chamber,” he said; “I reckon we can learn a thing or two from him.”

[Lynx-lynx]

Brideshead Revisited, a great read and, in my opinion, much better than the film versions!! (I saw the 11 part series in the 80/90's, and a recentish movie, but hadn't read the book before.)

As to themes, for me the main theme was the all pervasive, totally consuming, brainwashing of Roman Catholicism. I know that Waugh converted to Roman Catholicism when in his twenties, but I can't see how he reconciled himself with it because in this novel (written during WWII) he constantly points out through the Flyte family the strange and perverse influences it has had on all their lives - their various addictions to their religion combined with their various withdrawal symptoms and then ultimately addiction again.

As for Ryder, Waugh doesn't give him a personality at all ..... very bland fellow who reveals no feelings for anyone, not even his children. (Did he ever meet his daughter I wonder??)

I don't think there was a homosexual relationship between Sebastion and Ryder, it was just straight 'boy love' from Ryder's perspective I think. And after all it was the 'family' that Ryder was enamoured by.

Can someone tell me what happened to the stately home, was it sold, because at one point in the book the father was supposed to have sold it to pay for increasing debts, and Ryder was asked to paint various rooms and aspects of it (which he did). But then they were living in it again. So, I'm a bit confused by this point ....

[Lynx-lynx]

Originally Posted by bfisher

I read his "The Loved One" when I was 15, and thought it quite funny at the time. Since reading Brideshead Revisited, I feel motivated to give it a reread 47 years on. I've had the Sword of Honour trilogy on my TBR for some time.

Scoop sounds like a whack at Northcliffe or Beaverbrook, and possibly delicious. Thanks for the recommendation.

I recently bought the Sword of Honour trilogy, and read all of book 1 and about a quarter of book 2. I stopped reading because the writing was so bland that it was just a (boring) slog to keep going because I felt so bland reading it!

Having said that there were some absolutely outrageously hilarious moments to do with a portable 'thunder box'!!!!

bfisher, thank you for your recommendation re Powell's A Dance to the Music of Time series. I've got the whole series (due to various 90% off sales) and will read it sooner rather than later.

Edit
On another note, has anyone read Nancy Mitford? (I loved her Radlett & Montdore series.) I also read a book containing letters between herself and various others including Waugh, whom she regarded as a great friend. Very interesting reading, so ordinary everyday and yet written with such style - that is those to whom she wrote and those who replied to her.

[Bookpossum]

I was left wondering if Ryder's daughter was indeed his child, given the references he made to his wife having had an affair, and that they had parted when he went to South America with her in tears. I didn't get the impression that that was because she was upset to see him go.

As for Brideshead, it definitely had been left to Julia because the estate wasn't entailed (i.e. it didn't automatically go to the eldest son) but what on earth she was to do with it, who knows! I think the debts were resolved by selling Marchmain House, in London.

I must admit I read Sword of Honour a very long time ago, and don't remember it as clearly as some of his other books, so you could well be spot on there, Lynx-lynx!

I have read the first three books of A Dance to the Music of Time and keep planning on reading the other nine this year. Somehow half the year is over already!

No, I haven't ever got into Mitford - another on the frighteningly long list of TBRs.

[Lynx-lynx]

Ahh, it was Marchmain House in London that was sold. Well that make sense.

Oh yep, you could be quite right about the father of his daughter.

[Bookworm_Girl]

Welcome to the literary club, Lynx-lynx. Thanks for sharing your interesting posts.

I am really slow on this one but expect to finish next week.

[bfisher]

Originally Posted by Lynx-lynx

On another note, has anyone read Nancy Mitford? (I loved her Radlett & Montdore series.) I also read a book containing letters between herself and various others including Waugh, whom she regarded as a great friend. Very interesting reading, so ordinary everyday and yet written with such style - that is those to whom she wrote and those who replied to her.

I've had "The Pursuit of Love" and "Love In a Cold Climate" on my TBR for some time now. Thank you, I shall have to move them up on my priority list.

Originally Posted by Lynx-lynx

Brideshead Revisited, a great read and, in my opinion, much better than the film versions!! (I saw the 11 part series in the 80/90's, and a recentish movie, but hadn't read the book before.)

As to themes, for me the main theme was the all pervasive, totally consuming, brainwashing of Roman Catholicism. I know that Waugh converted to Roman Catholicism when in his twenties, but I can't see how he reconciled himself with it because in this novel (written during WWII) he constantly points out through the Flyte family the strange and perverse influences it has had on all their lives - their various addictions to their religion combined with their various withdrawal symptoms and then ultimately addiction again.

As for Ryder, Waugh doesn't give him a personality at all ..... very bland fellow who reveals no feelings for anyone, not even his children. (Did he ever meet his daughter I wonder??)

I don't think there was a homosexual relationship between Sebastion and Ryder, it was just straight 'boy love' from Ryder's perspective I think. And after all it was the 'family' that Ryder was enamoured by.

Can someone tell me what happened to the stately home, was it sold, because at one point in the book the father was supposed to have sold it to pay for increasing debts, and Ryder was asked to paint various rooms and aspects of it (which he did). But then they were living in it again. So, I'm a bit confused by this point ....

Great discussion Lynx-lynx and welcome to this book discussion club.

[bfisher]

Originally Posted by Bookpossum

As for Brideshead, it definitely had been left to Julia because the estate wasn't entailed (i.e. it didn't automatically go to the eldest son) but what on earth she was to do with it, who knows! I think the debts were resolved by selling Marchmain House, in London.

There was the older title of Baron (Lord Brideshead) which, as a non-modern title, could be inherited through the female line (Julia) when Marchmain's son Brideshead died without issue; his wife was probably too old to provide heirs for Brideshead ("She's a good forty-five. I can't see her providing an heir."). Leaving the estate to Julia would provide the seat and money to support the title. ("the barony descends in the female line; when Brideshead is buried - he married late - Julia's son will be called by the name his fathers bore before the fat days...")

I got a sense that for Waugh/Ryder (for in some ways Ryder is Waugh), it was appropriate to revert to the older title from the days of Catholic England ("...before the fat days; the days of wool shearing and the wide corn lands") - the lands taken from the Church in the time of Henry VIII.

[sun surfer]

Exquisite melancholy...

It took me almost the entire month to read this, partly because I didn't have as much reading time as normal but mainly because I took my time, really enjoying it and reading it slowly to savour it. I loved it as I loved the mini-series (I stayed away from the more recent film adaptation having heard some bad reviews).

I read the original version. I don't think there is an e-book version of it as I looked around, so I had to make my way to a second-hand bookshop and find a copy (I ended up with an old but in good shape yellow -the colour of the photographed sky above a Brideshead in shadow- small hardback "Companion to the PBS television series" copy with large centred inlaid pictures of the cast on front and back). The tell-tale sign for me was the phrase "soft vapours" (in the original) versus "soft airs" (in the revision) in the second paragraph of Chapter One. This website talks about some early differences and a few reasons. After being used to ebooks, the only thing about reading this pbook that got to me was how many notes I wanted to make of the wonderful language and passages and how much more cumbersome it was to do it manually (so I cut back and only made a few).

One thing I thought of while reading is that perhaps (although, it's very likely only coincidentally) the title almost referred more to father Marchmain than even Charles. After all, he is the one who leaves Brideshead "for good" and decides to revisit it only once, for his death, and his death is basically the finale of the book. This would also fit with the theme of unexpected turns of plot and meaning, such as jumping from a focus on Sebastian to Julia mid-book.

I also wonder if the word "brideshead" had some meaning. It comes from a source of water and the house was situated there. I'm not sure that I've grasped any theme firmly yet, but this could also fit in with that huge and important fountain. Maybe Waugh viewed this place allegorically as some sort of source or spring of something, maybe spirituality, such as viewed at the end of the epilogue.

I think the major theme of the book was spirituality and in particular Catholicism. Not just some, but all of the main characters (Charles and the family) have come to the church by the end in their various ways. The mother, Bridey and Cordelia always were, Sebastian ends up at a monastery, Julia makes her stand on her father's deathbed, the father takes the final sacraments and Charles shows very subtly that he's converting at the end. I do think it's funny how dysfunctional Waugh made the family out to be if they were representative of the religion he's advocating; it's almost like a backhanded compliment. I feel like maybe he had his theme decided but couldn't help going where he would with these characters and their personalities. Or maybe he was trying to show that faith can help even this sort of family in the end, though stepping back a bit it can be viewed as the opposite - that their faith could've increased or even been the cause of their dysfunction.

I loved the writing style - the ambiguity, the melancholy, the lushness, the wit and humour, the cleverness and the meandering.

At the end, the house is in Julia's possession, but she's gone off to volunteer as a nurse and the house was requisitioned by the military for use during the war. She should have it back afterwards, and who knows, perhaps she married Charles after his conversion once they re-met somewhere, and they had a bunch of kids and Uncle Sebastian got sober and moved back with them and they all lived happily ever after. Heh.

I think Charles and Sebastian did have a sexual relationship though it was left deliberately ambiguous. I see Charles as sort of omnisexual even more than bisexual, mainly because bisexual is so definite. Charles seemed to be mostly straight but fell in love with Sebastian and kept that love his entire life. Personally, I think this is the natural way of life - I think we're mostly born being attracted to one sex, but we can fall in love or derive sexual pleasure from either sex if we allow it, and Charles personifies this to me.

Originally Posted by Lynx-lynx

Brideshead Revisited, a great read and, in my opinion, much better than the film versions!! (I saw the 11 part series in the 80/90's, and a recentish movie, but hadn't read the book before.)

Welcome, and sacrilege! The book was better than the mini-series, but I have to say the mini-series is one of my favourites as well. This is the first time I can say a screen adaptation seems to have included almost everything and more and possibly the most faithful adaptation I've seen. In fact, because of the flightiness of the book, where it would flit into a conversation or scene and out after a sentence or two, the screen version actually seems, oddly, more fleshed out than the book version. But I don't think this is a fault of the book - the gossamer sheen on many scenes that only leave them very delicately touched in the book seems a deliberate and interesting style choice that would be very hard to translate to screen without lots of scenes that only last a very short time. Also, oddly, I thought the book a little more vivid and colourful at times. For instance, the rooms of Brideshead don't always seem quite as drab and stuffy in the book as some of them look in the series - but I think that was the logistic problem of making do with the house they had found that worked so well on the exterior. The stuffiness does work though with the melancholy atmosphere. And though the humour is in both, there really wasn't any way the series could translate the wit of Waugh except for when a character speaks it.

As for Ryder, Waugh doesn't give him a personality at all ..... very bland fellow who reveals no feelings for anyone, not even his children...

He is, though looking at his father goes a long way in explaining this. Also, I feel like he's holding it all in and doesn't even show it to the reader, except for the single solitary passionate outburst against Catholicism as father Marchmain is dying. I think this because of how many things we find out after he's explained them while leaving so many important details out - such as his trip to Central America that at first seems very callous and uncaring to his family (once we find out he now has one) but we later find out may be because of a deep pain he's feeling from being betrayed by his wife.

Speaking of things left untold until later, I found one of the funniest things about the book to be the title conveying the sense that he left the house long ago, to find out by the end that he'd only somewhat recently left.

Originally Posted by bfisher

There was the older title of Baron (Lord Brideshead) which, as a non-modern title, could be inherited through the female line (Julia) when Marchmain's son Brideshead died without issue; his wife was probably too old to provide heirs for Brideshead ("She's a good forty-five. I can't see her providing an heir."). Leaving the estate to Julia would provide the seat and money to support the title. ("the barony descends in the female line; when Brideshead is buried - he married late - Julia's son will be called by the name his fathers bore before the fat days...")...

Ah, I saw things slightly differently in what was said in the book. I thought they were saying the barony would go to his relative's (who also happened to be named Julia) son once he and Brideshead died without heirs. Sort of like in Downton Abbey where the title (though a different and higher one) was going to pass to a distant cousin. I thought (father Marchmain?) was saying that because of new rules, he could leave the house to whomever he wanted (so he chose Julia) rather than it go with the title (which would go to Brideshead, then his son or in absence of one to that distant relative Julia's son). Your interpretation makes a lot of sense though.

Originally Posted by Bookpossum

I agree bfisher: Waugh loved the dignity and grandeur of the aristocracy's way of life as well as that of his chosen religion, and mourned its passing in both. All very nice, as long as you were part of the rich aristocracy, rather than of the mundane masses represented by Hooper!

I read that Waugh was writing this during the starkness of the war and used the book as an outlet to gorge on thoughts of the lavishness he was missing. That's why he said later that he thought it was too over-the-top in the richness of upper class detail, though I disagree with him. So apparently the book was supposed to be about finding grace/religion but ended up being almost as much about a yearning for a shimmering past.

[Bookpossum]

What an interesting post sun surfer! Lots to think about there and me on a limited lot of internet during our travels! Thanks for your thoughts.