Shades of 1984

[crane3]

Interesting. Now I have to ask what is a book "update"? I buy just fiction books but have gotten several non-fiction books as in 'Python 3', 'imap', 'mythology', 'nexus 7' & a 'howto nikon p510'; no idea if there are 'updates'.

Would a new edition also be considered an 'update'? I cannot see getting a free update to a new edition even if there were only minimal changes. As someone pointed out, when one loses a printed book, it is not expected that the seller provide another copy; should it be different when getting an ebook?

Then, are printed books also 'updated' or is the update considered a new edition or is it under a new printing.

[RobertDDL]

Originally Posted by Difflugia

If the series was one I enjoyed and I trusted Amazon's or B&N's cloud enough to use the services the way they expect me to, I'd be mad.

Never trust them -- or you are mad

[Difflugia]

Originally Posted by crane3

Interesting. Now I have to ask what is a book "update"? I buy just fiction books but have gotten several non-fiction books as in 'Python 3', 'imap', 'mythology', 'nexus 7' & a 'howto nikon p510'; no idea if there are 'updates'.

In this case, an update is whenever the file changes. Updates actually happen quite often at both Amazon and B&N. With mainstream publishers, most of them are just formatting changes and maybe fixed typos, often without any visible changes. I've seen a number of updates from independents that are clearly the author learning more about ebook formatting or being able to afford a professional (I've seen more than one update from an obvious Calibre conversion to something hand-edited).

One of the more noticeable changes that I can think of was to The Da Vinci Code. I bought the book at B&N shortly after getting an ereader in 2012. In early 2013, promotional material for Inferno was added to the book that included a "coming soon" graphic just behind the cover image and an excerpt in the back. The download that I get right now still has the excerpt, but not the "coming soon". I kept copies of all three versions just because I thought they were neat.

Originally Posted by crane3

Would a new edition also be considered an 'update'? I cannot see getting a free update to a new edition even if there were only minimal changes. As someone pointed out, when one loses a printed book, it is not expected that the seller provide another copy; should it be different when getting an ebook?

Then, are printed books also 'updated' or is the update considered a new edition or is it under a new printing.

I have no a priori opinion about whether an ebookstore should give me future copies of books that I buy. If they say they will, though, I think it's reasonable (in the legal sense) to expect that they will.

In fact, most of the ebookstores that I deal with allow me to retrieve all of my past purchases as a side effect of their device ecosystems, but each works slightly differently. Kobo's books are all a snapshot of the file at the time I bought the book. If I download a book today that I bought a year ago, I get the same file even if Kobo's selling a different file now. Ebooks.com is the other extreme. Whatever edition and even format is available right now is what I get when I download. I bought several books at ebooks.com that were PDF and pre-Kindle MobiPocket that are no longer available as such, but I can download them today as epub.

I have purchased books from some vendors that have allowed limited ADE downloads or even just emailed me copies of books, but they told me up front that I was getting a one-time (or at least limited) download and I'm OK with that.

[skinmaan]

Originally Posted by Difflugia

I recently redownloaded my Barnes & Noble library to check for new editions of books. It seems that the author of a three-book omnibus had second thoughts and retroactively turned it into a two-book omnibus.

I wonder, if instead you had "bought" (or even received for free) all three books individually and B&N (or Amazon) then removed one of the books from your library opinions would skew differently? I mean, as long as you had your backup copy you weren't really harmed, right?

[odamizu]

Originally Posted by Difflugia

... taking a third out of a book that's already in my library seems a little unethical to me.

I agree.

Originally Posted by Dr. Drib

It's the purchaser's responsibility not to lose his book and it is his decision to download it when he buys it.

From BN's help files: "once you’ve purchased your NOOK Book it stays in your online account. You can download a title again whenever you want." Plus, BN has now blocked the ability to download ebooks or retrieve them from your device, so even if you were inclined to backup your books, you couldn't without hacking.

Amazon has similar language on their product pages: "We automatically back up your entire Kindle library free in the cloud so there's never a worry about losing your books. Re-download wirelessly anytime for free."

Same with Kobo: "You don't need to back up any books or magazines purchased from the Kobo Store because they are automatically backed up in the Kobo Cloud .... You can re-download a book from the Kobo Cloud any time you have access to Wi Fi.

[Dr. Drib]

All of my purchases have been downloaded, since I don't wish to be caught out in the open with my pants down.

[odamizu]

Originally Posted by Dr. Drib

All of my purchases have been downloaded, since I don't wish to be caught out in the open with my pants down.

I agree. I do the same.

But it doesn't seem fair to say, "It's the purchaser's responsibility not to lose his book and it is his decision to download it when he buys it" when BN promises that "once you’ve purchased your NOOK Book it stays in your online account. You can download a title again whenever you want."

Shouldn't we hold the bookseller responsible for doing what they say they will instead of blaming the purchaser?

[mr ploppy]

Taking the third book out of the compilation might be for the Scribd / Oyster market, where you get paid once someone reads beyond a certain point. Making the book shorter means you reach that point sooner. Plus you'd get paid again if they went on to read the third book.

Similar things are happening on Amazon, where people are realising shorter books make more money on Kindle Unlimited. There are people releasing books as serials, and putting all the copyright and other stuff nobody cares about at the front, just to get people past the payment point. It's understandable enough to me, you always need to adapt to any emerging market.

[DiapDealer]

I understand it. IF they create a new product when doing so. Keeping the same Product ID and reviews for a 64oz jug of laundry detergent that has since been shrunk to 48oz is shady.

[eschwartz]

Perhaps B&N did not realize the book was cut down, perhaps they thought it was simply edited. It is SOP to allow updating books, e.g. spelling and formatting fixes etc. -- those technically create a "new book" but not the way we think. Then, we are happy the PID is the same.

It really does seem to me that the author is the only one responsible for this.

Much though I hate to think well of B&N.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

It really does seem to me that the author is the only one responsible for this.

Oh absolutely. Gaming the system.

I don't have a huge problem with it (and I'm certainly not going to lose any sleep over it), but when asked if it seemed "a little unethical to me?" Yep. I think it certainly qualifies as such. You've got a two-book omnibus for sale sporting reviews for the three-book omnibus it no longer is.

[murg]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Perhaps B&N did not realize the book was cut down, perhaps they thought it was simply edited. It is SOP to allow updating books, e.g. spelling and formatting fixes etc. -- those technically create a "new book" but not the way we think. Then, we are happy the PID is the same.

It really does seem to me that the author is the only one responsible for this.

Much though I hate to think well of B&N.

It wouldn't be hard to put an automated check in, and if the ebook text size changes by more than 5-10%, kick out a warning so a human can check it.

[eschwartz]

That would require them thinking about that kind of case. Does anyone know if any other vendors, e.g. the sainted Amazon have an automated-or-otherwise check for this nonsense?

It is rather difficult to predict everything that a crazy person might do.

[Difflugia]

Originally Posted by murg

It wouldn't be hard to put an automated check in, and if the ebook text size changes by more than 5-10%, kick out a warning so a human can check it.

Originally Posted by eschwartz

That would require them thinking about that kind of case. Does anyone know if any other vendors, e.g. the sainted Amazon have an automated-or-otherwise check for this nonsense?

It is rather difficult to predict everything that a crazy person might do.

I think this would get way too many false positives. Many books clearly started out life as "save as HTML" code from Word and then run through some automated file muncher. Lately, I've seen a non-trivial number of those books updated with much smaller and cleaner code.

[eschwartz]

But that wouldn't be text size, just file size. So if the holy grail we speak of did exist it would ignore those books.