What do you think about circumventing geographic restrictions?

[darryl]

The division of the world into regions for this purpose is an historical artifact. It remains possible and even logical with physical goods, but not with electronic goods and services on the Internet. In one sense geo-blocking can be seen as an attempt to simulate real world barriers such as Oceans, Mountains, physical distances etc on the Internet. And the purpose? To preserve the old business model of selling exclusive rights to geographical regions. Which has the follow-on effect of preserving the power of the buyers of such rights to exploit, sometimes ruthlessly, their particular areas. Such geographical markets do not exist naturally for electronic goods and services on the internet, and attempts to create them are easily circumvented and hence not very effective.

I see no moral or ethical right on the part of a holder of intellectual property which entitles that rights-holder to charge more in one geographical area than another, nor do I believe that I have any moral or ethical duty to pay more for my ebooks than those in other regions. By circumventing geographical restrictions I am not "ripping-off" the rights holder, who is getting whatever share is applicable to the region I actually buy from. If my region is being "ripped-off" and the rights holder is receiving a greater amount from sales in my region because of this, then I am simply avoiding being "ripped-off", which I would argue is quite acceptable both morally and ethically. The "person" who is missing out is whoever bought the local rights, who is being left out and earning nothing from my purchase. If that person was selling the ebook in question for the same price as in other regions, I would have no need to circumvent geo-blocking. In fact, there would arguable be little need for geo-blocking in the first place. However, if the ebook is being sold for more locally, then this is because I am being "ripped-off" by the buyer of the local rights, or the buyer of the local rights is being "ripped-off" by the rights holder, or probably both. Once again, I do not see any moral or ethical problem.

I also fail to see any moral or ethical right for a rights-holder to withhold supply to a particular region. Once the ebook is on the internet, it is on the one market. Whatever the legal position, it is not morally or ethically wrong to circumvent the geo-restrictions and buy the ebook.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by issybird

I agree that the owner sets the conditions and frequently I do just buy the pbook. However, I don't think that circumvention and piracy are moral equivalents.

I didn't say they were *morally* equivalent.
Just that they reside on the same functional gradient.

There is a difference but it isn't as big as many seem to think.

In piracy you simply take the book and nobody in the chain gets anything.

In out-of-region purchases you give money to the author and publisher and retailer that paid for the rights to the region you buy from. The publisher and retailer that paid for the rights to the region you reside in get nothing. From *their* point of view out-of-region buying and piracy are functionally the same. In both cases they get nothing for their investment.

If enough people do it, the incentive to invest in book licensing goes away. Local editions go away. And maybe the publisher goes away, too.

Morality is not the issue. Economics is.
It's all a matter of what you're comfortable with.

[ucfgrad93]

Originally Posted by EowynCarter

I mostly don't do it.
Not because i feel it's immoral, but out of laziness. Sell to me or I won't buy from you.

Pretty much how I feel about it. There are too many books, movies, music, etc. to buy without jumping through a bunch of hoops to get it. If you don't want to sell me your product in my region, then I'll buy something else from someone who does.

[Geralt]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

The publisher and retailer that paid for the rights to the region you reside in get nothing. From *their* point of view out-of-region buying and piracy are functionally the same. In both cases they get nothing for their investment.

What if there's no publisher and retailer? They don't exist. The world is a big place dude, there aren't retailers and publishers for every region or country just waiting for you to "swindle" them out of their money. In digital world, concept of regions and borders is downright ridiculous.
Hopefully in a decade or two, big business will wake up and smell the coffee.

[ballfresno]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

If somebody doesn't want to sell me something, I'm not going to go to any unusual effort to give them my money.

Exactly. It's not as if I am short of material to read.
If they don't want my business. plenty of others do.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by ballfresno

Exactly. It's not as if I am short of material to read.
If they don't want my business. plenty of others do.

I take a somewhat different approach. For the most part, I buy specific books by specific authors, not generic books by generic authors. That means that if a book that I want to read isn't available in my geographic territory, but is available in another geographic territory (say for example, the UK), then I'm interested. I have friends in the UK, so I could probably arrange for one of them to set up an account with a prepaid credit card that I could use.

What holds me back is there are only a hand full of books that I am interested in that are available in the UK but not the US and most of those books eventually do make it to the US, so it's just not worth the effort to me. I'm sure that those who live in other countries, might be a lot more interested in setting up methods of buying books in the US.

Personally, as long as the author gets paid, I don't see any moral issues. I agree with some of the previous posters who call the practice out of date. In today's electronic market, geographic restrictions isn't viable long term.

[GERGE]

It is a moral issue because you are breaching a contract. When I signed up with Amazon, I agreed to abide to their rules; then I lied about where I live to buy English ebooks. This is clearly immoral.

I have a choice between not reading, pirating or bypassing geographic restrictions. I am choosing the last. I can't buy a paper book as usually there isn't one for self-published books and they are only available from Amazon.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by GERGE

It is a moral issue because you are breaching a contract. When I signed up with Amazon, I agreed to abide to their rules; then I lied about where I live to buy English ebooks. This is clearly immoral.

First you ask opinions on if it's immoral ... then you claim the immorality is a given.

Originally Posted by GERGE

Is breaching the contract you made with Amazon or Netflix immoral when you do it to circumvent the geographic restrictions? I do it with Amazon, Crunchyroll, Netflix...

And if you think it is immoral, would that stop you?

[GERGE]

I am asking your opinion and giving mine. I am entitled to an opinion, but am aware that other people might think differently.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by GERGE

I am asking your opinion and giving mine. I am entitled to an opinion, but am aware that other people might think differently.

My bad. "It is a moral issue" and "this is clearly immoral" just didn't come across as very opinion-y to me, that's all.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

2- eBooks aren't sold. They are licensed.

I disagree. Amazon has a buy now button, not a license now. Kobo calls it a purchase. Google Play's button says Buy. Those are not words to tell me I'm not buying buy licensing. I could give more examples, but no need as they are all similar or the same.

[Ripplinger]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

...
Personally, as long as the author gets paid, I don't see any moral issues. I agree with some of the previous posters who call the practice out of date. In today's electronic market, geographic restrictions isn't viable long term.

This sums it up perfect for me and my feeling on it.

[JSWolf]

I've seen too many cases where a book series was only partially available in one country and fully available in another. Yet, the people in the country with the partial series cannot buy the full series of books because of georestrictions.

What is really stupid is the way georistrictions for book work. You can buy a pBook no problem in a different country, but an eBook, nope. The place of purchase for the pBook is the shop you buy it from, but for an eBook, it's where you are. And this is for the exact same book from the exact same store.

[Catlady]

I don't do it because I don't know how. When I've tried to look at instructions, I find them too confusing. Audible UK has some books I wish I could get, but in addition to the need to figure out how to circumvent the geo restrictions, I'd also have to pay quite a bit without a membership.

If a book I desperately wanted wasn't available in the U.S., I'd just buy the print version and have it shipped to me.

[JoHunt]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I disagree. Amazon has a buy now button, not a license now. Kobo calls it a purchase. Google Play's button says Buy. Those are not words to tell me I'm not buying buy licensing. I could give more examples, but no need as they are all similar or the same.

Wrong.

Use of Kindle Content. Upon your download of Kindle Content and payment of any applicable fees (including applicable taxes), the Content Provider grants you a non-exclusive right to view, use, and display such Kindle Content an unlimited number of times, solely on the Kindle or a Reading Application or as otherwise permitted as part of the Service, solely on the number of Kindles or Supported Devices specified in the Kindle Store, and solely for your personal, non-commercial use. Kindle Content is licensed, not sold, to you by the Content Provider. The Content Provider may include additional terms for use within its Kindle Content. Those terms will also apply, but this Agreement will govern in the event of a conflict.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/custom...deId=201014950