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Old 02-10-2015, 08:34 PM   #16
SteveEisenberg
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This proves they are rip-off scum.
And if you believe Kobo, people are actually falling for it:

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Old 02-11-2015, 12:08 AM   #17
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The type of modifications done usually mean that the book itself would attract copyright. This person who has just copied everything would be breaching the copyright. I know vaguely that the US has a registration system for copyright and requires the use of a copyright symbol on the work, but am not sure of the consequences of not following that system. However, in Australia, the United Kingdom and likely the other common law countries copyright just exists, with no requirement of registration or requirement to show the copyright mark on the work.
US copyright is also automatic. You have a copyright in all works you create at the moment of creation. Registration is only necessary to qualify for statutory damages if you sue. You can sue without registration, but can only receive actual damages then. A copyright mark is not required to show it's copyrighted. (More like, legally it's assumed to be copyrighted unless otherwise noted.)

So yeah, this guy's likely violating US copyrights too.
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Old 02-11-2015, 01:26 AM   #18
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If the works are public domain in the US, there is no copyright on any version of the text, as far as the US is concerned.

There probably isn't a copyright on the HTML/CSS.

There may be a copyright on the cover.

If there is original content, such as a forward, afterword or some other word, that is copyrighted.
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Old 02-11-2015, 01:38 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by murg View Post
If the works are public domain in the US, there is no copyright on any version of the text, as far as the US is concerned.

There probably isn't a copyright on the HTML/CSS.

There may be a copyright on the cover.

If there is original content, such as a forward, afterword or some other word, that is copyrighted.
Exactly. I don't think there is much one can do, except for naming and shaming.

One option might be to publish the cover art under a license that doesn't allow commercial use, like CC BY-NC SA 3.0. Then one could try and ask the store selling the book to remove it so that Kbook guy might at least be forced to come up with his own covers like all the other scam publishers...
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Old 02-11-2015, 01:58 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by murg View Post
If the works are public domain in the US, there is no copyright on any version of the text, as far as the US is concerned.

There probably isn't a copyright on the HTML/CSS.

There may be a copyright on the cover.

If there is original content, such as a forward, afterword or some other word, that is copyrighted.
Not correct. I can think of the layout and the TOC for starters. Depending what work was done there is almost certainly copyright, not over the text itself, of course, but the particular version.
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Old 02-11-2015, 02:16 AM   #21
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Not correct. I can think of the layout and the TOC for starters. Depending what work was done there is almost certainly copyright, not over the text itself, of course, but the particular version.
It depends on the country. In the US, I don't think there is any remedy, but in the UK, there's a 25 year copyright on layout.
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Old 02-11-2015, 02:51 AM   #22
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I think there was an article on the digital reader about something else. In it it was said, that in the US copyright requires original work. And just changing the layout etc. is not considered as adding original work to the text. So this is scam but unfortunately legal.
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Old 02-11-2015, 03:23 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by dickloraine View Post
I think there was an article on the digital reader about something else. In it it was said, that in the US copyright requires original work. And just changing the layout etc. is not considered as adding original work to the text. So this is scam but unfortunately legal.
Yep, concerning the text (and even the layout) what Kbook does is legal according to German law too, though the situation might be different in Britain if bgalbrecht is right.

Cover design is a different story though. It's not as if Kbook were the first publisher with this business model, but the others at least changed the covers. Kbook is the first to sell books from MR (and elsewhere) just as found, without changing anything. If you look at the preview of pynch's Edith Wharton you will even see "Version 1.1, December 2012, by pynch."

So cover design is new creative work and most certainly protected by copyright. Might be the basis for a complaint to Kobo if one finds one's own upload there.
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Old 02-11-2015, 03:51 AM   #24
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Ah but what if someone does a new translation of a book from one language to another? For example if they doa new translation of Jules verne's "20,000 Leagues Under the Seas." If they do a translation from French to English even if the book is PD doesn't that count as a copyright violation if someone else does as the person mentioned in the OP has done?
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Old 02-11-2015, 03:55 AM   #25
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Ah but what if someone does a new translation of a book from one language to another? For example if they doa new translation of Jules verne's "20,000 Leagues Under the Seas." If they do a translation from French to English even if the book is PD doesn't that count as a copyright violation if someone else does as the person mentioned in the OP has done?
Yes, of course. A new translation of a PD work is copyright protected. Not sure how long, but I think it's like an original work, translator's life +70 (but please don't quote me on that.)

ETA: But for the same reason, a new translation can't be in the MR library, unless the translator him- or herself uploaded it.
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Old 02-11-2015, 06:00 AM   #26
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Is the Sherlock Holmes Omnibus available in the US on Kobo? If so, we should point the Conan Doyle estate to it. They're pretty fierce about protecting their remaining US copyrights in the later stories.
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Old 02-11-2015, 09:24 AM   #27
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Is the Sherlock Holmes Omnibus available in the US on Kobo?
The one Jon linked to earlier is available in the US for $4.21
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Old 02-11-2015, 10:03 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by dickloraine View Post
I think there was an article on the digital reader about something else. In it it was said, that in the US copyright requires original work. And just changing the layout etc. is not considered as adding original work to the text. So this is scam but unfortunately legal.
I don't think a court has ruled on whether an ebook of a public domain text is an original work or not. There's an argument that an ebook is software and thus eligible for copyright in its own right, which is actually what any ebook store with a click-through license is counting on (courts ruled that shrink-wrap licenses for physical books violated the first-sale doctrine; not so for software).
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Old 02-11-2015, 12:39 PM   #29
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It depends on the country. In the US, I don't think there is any remedy, but in the UK, there's a 25 year copyright on layout.
HarryT is in the UK and he created the Sherlock Holmes Omnibus. So your saying his layout has a 25 year copyright? If that's so, can these kBook thieves be taken to to court for copyright infringement?
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Old 02-11-2015, 12:51 PM   #30
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HarryT is in the UK and he created the Sherlock Holmes Omnibus. So your saying his layout has a 25 year copyright? If that's so, can these kBook thieves be taken to to court for copyright infringement?
Suing is unlikely to be useful, because the person behind this would likely be difficult to find, and probably hasn't make enough money to make it worthwhile. What is probably best is for HarryT to send Kobo a cease and desist notice pointing out it's infringing on his copyright. Others from the UK should do the same. If Kobo/etc. gets enough notices, they may yank the entire seller account.

I do like pdurrant's idea, let's sic the Conan Doyle estate on them.
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