Macmillan comes to terms with Amazon

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Listen carefully: "How does that affect 'reaching their readers'?"

I have no problem with MacMillan wanting to broaden their retail ebook base (for their own financial security), I have no problem with MacMillan wanting to gain more control over their ebook business (for their own financial security). I simply have a problem with Sargent saying it's about being able to "reach readers," which has never been a problem--even when Amazon was playing "hardball." Readers buy the books/authors they want to buy, wherever/however they have to. They've never NOT been able to buy MacMillan etitles somewhere (except when they don't make them available).

Well, it is kind of hard to reach readers if Amazon drops your books, or removes the pre-order button.

[Shades]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Well, it is kind of hard to reach readers if Amazon drops your books, or removes the pre-order button.

Amazon is not the only retailer though. If someone wants a book, they will not just say "Oh, Amazon doesn't have it so I won't buy it." Consumers do have brains and can (and do) shop around. It's not like Kobo or B&N or even other places don't exist.

Amazon is just easy to use. They don't always have the best price or selection. There are items that Amazon doesn't have.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by Shades

Amazon is not the only retailer though. If someone wants a book, they will not just say "Oh, Amazon doesn't have it so I won't buy it." Consumers do have brains and can (and do) shop around. It's not like Kobo or B&N or even other places don't exist.

Amazon is just easy to use. They don't always have the best price or selection. There are items that Amazon doesn't have.

If you have a kindle device, then they might as well not exists.

[Shades]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

If you have a kindle device, then they might as well not exists.

True, but people also have PCs, phones and tablets. All of which have reader programs available from the big booksellers. (Well iOS and Android, not sure how Windows phone fairs.)

And people can always buy the pbook or get it at their local library.

[Little.Egret]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

If you have a kindle device, then they might as well not exists.

You can purchase from sites like Smashwords but most Kindle users are not even willing to learn how to download from Gutenberg.

The problem is the missed sales for the author and publisher, not that the Kindle owners can't do it.

[DiapDealer]

Not to mention that even during Amazon's playing of "hardball," they didn't "drop" any books. "pre-orders" are a negotiable perk. Lack of being able to pre-order doesn't deter readers. They either pre-order somewhere else or buy it when it actually releases. Again; Sargent's statement had nothing to do with MacMillan's titles "reaching" readers. He just wants more control over HOW—and even more to the point; for HOW MUCH—his purely-for-profit bundles of electrons reach those readers.

And that's fine. Just don't try to snow people with that "it's all for the readers" crap.

[Shades]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

And that's fine. Just don't try to snow people with that "it's all for the readers" crap.

Well, saying, "We're doing it to rake in more dough" just doesn't quite sound as good as "we're doing it for our readers."

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Not to mention that even during Amazon's playing of "hardball," they didn't "drop" any books. "pre-orders" are a negotiable perk. Lack of being able to pre-order doesn't deter readers. They either pre-order somewhere else or buy it when it actually releases.

That's what wish lists are for.
Put it on the list, buy it later.
No muss, no fuss.

Pre-order button angst isn't about readers *at all*.
It is about publishers incapable of market research relying on Amazon preorders to set the size of a print run.

http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog...poly-or-j.html

...because if Amazon don't order your books in advance in dead-tree form they don't get printed, and if they aren't printed and in the warehouse they can't be sold elsewhere...

Beware the venom at the source.
Because some people think it is a human right to have their books preordered by Amazon without a contract in place that guarantees delivery.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Beware the venom at the source.
Because some people think it is a human right to have their books preordered by Amazon without a contract in place that guarantees delivery.

Are you hinting at the possibility that some pre-orders may not be fulfilled by Amazon (not their fault), or do you mean that Amazon will never put up a pre-order option unless it can guarantee delivery? And in the case they can't, they sue for contract breach?

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

Are you hinting at the possibility that some pre-orders may not be fulfilled by Amazon (not their fault), or do you mean that Amazon will never put up a pre-order option unless it can guarantee delivery? And in the case they can't, they sue for contract breach?

If they don't have a contract in place they can't sue.
That is why they regularly remove pre-order buttons for items due out *after* existing contracts expire. (Hachette wasn't the only time they removed them. It appears to be their policy. They did it with Disney and WB on DVDS. The two kept negotiating without public whining.)

Would you take an order for a product you have no assurance you can actually deliver? I wouldn't. Some people would and do. I've run into them.

(Buy.com did it to me. I no longer buy books or anything else from them. And they used to get almost as much business from me as Amazon.)

So far, Amazon hasn't failed to deliver on my pre-orders. Typically, they ship the day before release and I get it the day after.

[DuckieTigger]

Thank you, that is what I thought. I myself have never been disappointed by pre-orders. Granted I only tried Amazon so far and will continue to do so from your experience with buy.com.

Today I looked in my wishlist, and an item that I put in for $174 said it is now $104, and that I put it on the list for the much higher price. It made the difference of justifying it at a later time or ordering it immediately today at the lower price. Have to remember to check my wishlist at Amazon more often. Very useful to let me know about the price difference - even though I remembered because I was looking for that item specifically (complete Smallville boxed dvd set).

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

Thank you, that is what I thought. I myself have never been disappointed by pre-orders. Granted I only tried Amazon so far and will continue to do so from your experience with buy.com.

Today I looked in my wishlist, and an item that I put in for $174 said it is now $104, and that I put it on the list for the much higher price. It made the difference of justifying it at a later time or ordering it immediately today at the lower price. Have to remember to check my wishlist at Amazon more often. Very useful to let me know about the price difference - even though I remembered because I was looking for that item specifically (complete Smallville boxed dvd set).

One thing I do when something catches my eye but the price isn't right is I'll put it in a cart and save it for later. Every time I stop by I'll go to the cart and it'll let me know if the price went down or up.

Finding stuff at Amazon--books, dvds, or whatever--isn't a challenge. Getting my interest piqued enough to get me to buy is a whole other story. One that MacMillan "marketing" and pricing usually fails.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Finding stuff at Amazon--books, dvds, or whatever--isn't a challenge. Getting my interest piqued enough to get me to buy is a whole other story. One that MacMillan "marketing" and pricing usually fails.

But if they were to broaden their channels a bit, surely that would suck you right in and reach you, right? Right? Am I right?

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

But if they were to broaden their channels a bit, surely that would suck you right in and reach you, right? Right? Am I right?

As you said, their concern isn't so much reaching us as it is reaching into our wallets. Their incessant focus on reader-spend, even at the expense of their own bottom line makes that clear.

They literally don't care that their take is lower as long as we pay more.

("We" being theoretical in my case. I haven't bought anything from them since the conspiracy kicked in and I discovered I don't need any of their titles.)

[Phogg]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

As you said, their concern isn't so much reaching us as it is reaching into our wallets. Their incessant focus on reader-spend, even at the expense of their own bottom line makes that clear.

They literally don't care that their take is lower as long as we pay more.

("We" being theoretical in my case. I haven't bought anything from them since the conspiracy kicked in and I discovered I don't need any of their titles.)

I have bought some nonfiction from the old guard. But by and large I buy fiction from indie authors and small presses.

It is not driven entirely by price point. I not only do not want to support the big publishing houses, I want them to fail if their business model includes perpetual control of the Intellectual property of their respective authors.

I took this same course with my music purchases in the nineties.