Update Button Greyed Out

[pghaworth]

Originally Posted by Althelney

I've honestly never worked with anything where I had to worry about stealth OTA updates that you can't refuse and will install without any signal.

I share your pain. My PW2 arrived on 5.4.3.2 and before I could do anything, and with the wifi off, it upgraded to 5.4.5.1. I caught it at once, managed to downgrade, get it jailbroken, and protected quickly, but I was not not a happy Kindle owner at that moment. They have become much more stealthy with the updates imo.

[GoSharks]

Originally Posted by pghaworth

*snip*...They have become much more stealthy with the updates imo.

Amazon has done unasked for OTA updates (stealth) since the beginning. Nothing new here. What has changed more recently is the inability to downgrade to an earlier firmware. Apparently they know what's best

[pghaworth]

Originally Posted by GoSharks

Amazon has done unasked for OTA updates (stealth) since the beginning.

Well, then I've been lucky. I've never gotten one OTA, always had to download and install them myself. The one they landed on me pissed me off. A notification and offer is what's respectful and proper. To simply dump and install is beyond the pale.

They got my money this time, but it's unlikely I'll buy from them again. They've lost a loyal customer over this. They are reminding me more and more of Apple.

[knc1]

The core of the issue, as I see it:

"Who owns the behavior of the device?" (Of any embedded system, consumer, device.)

1) The original vendor?
2) The owner of the device?

I.E: Did the sale that transferred hardware ownership also transfer controlling ownership of the device's behavior?

NOTE: IANAL - just an experienced layman in the field.

In the USA - -
If someone, anyone, causes loss or change of computerized information on a computer system, they are guilty of a crime.

In this case:
If Amazon remotely changed or deleted an electronic document you placed on the device, a document that you clearly own (or have other rights to) ...
Then the above legal situation would apply.

That situation has been through the courts (multiple times).

If Amazon remotely changed, prevented use or deleted an application that you had added, one that you clearly own (or have other rights to) to the system that provides you with a previously unavailable feature ...

Does that change in behavior belong to you (and the above interference with it a crime) or does the behavior of the device belong to the original vendor (and the above interference is none of your concern).

As far as I know or can find out, this question has never (yet) been addressed by the courts (in the USA).

Does the ownership of the device's behavior belong to you or the original vendor?

Amazon clearly behaves as if they believe they have ownership control of the device's behavior.

I (and other members here) feel that the ownership of the control of the device's behavior changed hands when the ownership of the device did.

I.E: In brief terms: "Our war with Amazon."

- - - - -

For myself, at my age, am I just sounding off, maybe cheerleading a bit?
Probably.

But back when I was 1/2 my current age, I was one member of a group that forced the concept of "Monopoly telecommunications providers" into the courts, and won.
(Which forced AT&T to divest themselves of the Bell System companies - among other changes.)

So this "war" is not a waste of time, it **could** be changed (or at least legally recognized).

[pghaworth]

Great info and I'm on board with all of it! Kudos on the court win - we're lucky to have you and your knowledge here. Seriously. Thanks.

IMO it's okay to cheer for yourself and give the pat on the back. Someone should. The best boss I ever had (if you have to have a boss) used to tease me by asking if it was hard to reach around and pat myself on the back. Great guy.

[knc1]

Thanks,
I didn't mean to be patting myself on the back, but I re-read my post and I have to agree with your observation - I was.

The point I was trying to make is, this is just a small group of concerned people but I know from first hand experience that is all that is required to begin movement towards major change.

- - - - -

Think of the movement towards making everything "smart" -
Do you want the manufacturer of your kitchen blender to suddenly decide that no one should be making crushed ice drinks?
And then "updating" your kitchen blender so it can not be run at "ice crushing" speed?

- - - - -

So anyhow, from time to time I will climb up on my soap box and rave for a bit.

Sometime, the "just right" combination of circumstances and people might fall together.

[pghaworth]

Originally Posted by knc1

Thanks,
I didn't mean to be patting myself on the back, but I re-read my post and I have to agree with your observation - I was.

Oh, no! I didn't communicate what I meant very well so let me try again.

I was responding to what I thought you meant (obviously I was wrong). I was only saying that (and not that you were) it's okay to pat ourselves on the back fttt for a job well done. That's all. I wasn't implying that you were. I would never do that. Not my style. Very much not me. No offense meant, at all. Hell. I think you deserve all the cheering and pats you can get just for your work here.

[knc1]

Whoot! The PW2 Index page is no longer blank.
https://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/Prefix_Index#PW2
Nice job pulling together the scattered links into index pages.

I updated the PW2 section of the "Master Index" page (the link above).
The bad thing about our setup:
You have to manually update the Master Index with new Topic Index page sections.

The good thing about our setup:
You have to manually update the Master Index with new Topic Index page sections.

The practice to date has been to only go one or two levels deep into the Topic Index TOC.
And making multiple entries in the Master Index that end up at the same place is done whenever it is felt that it would make finding something easier.

In this case, I added two differently named PW2 Master Index entry sections - which end up at the same place in the PW2 Index.

These index pages are just plan Wiki pages, a free-form layout of whatever the author thinks will work best for the surfing user.

Often this sort of indexing is best done by the new user, while the problems they had of finding the information (without the index entries) are still fresh in their mind.

[dsmid]

I think the problem is that the Amazon's approach has no media coverage even though the forced firmware update is IMHO much more evil than the '1984' case.

[knc1]

Originally Posted by dsmid

I think the problem is that the Amazon's approach has no media coverage even though the forced firmware update is IMHO much more evil than the '1984' case.

Possibly correct.

I never have used any of the "social networking" sites/services - -

Could they be used to help spread the word to the PW2 owners that Amazon is making a serious effort to take back control from the owners?

Sort of a "Bad PR" campaign?
Topic:
"Amazon just broke all my added features!"

[pghaworth]

Originally Posted by dsmid

the forced firmware update is IMHO much more evil than the '1984' case.

Agreed!

[dsmid]

Originally Posted by knc1

Could they be used to help spread the word to the PW2 owners that Amazon is making a serious effort to take back control from the owners?

Sort of a "Bad PR" campaign?
Topic:
"Amazon just broke all my added features!"

Yes, they could but first you need an article on a trusted website like ArsTechnica or Slashdot - an article you can link to.
Such article should be easy to comprehend even for non-technical people. It should also contain overall history of jailbreaking and Amazon countermeasures.
It should be emphasised that the device contents get overwritten without owner's consent.
Only then it could possibly go viral via social networks.

[knc1]

Sounds reasonable, we have been Slashdot'd in the past -
Now if someone knows how to get that done (again) ....
Geekmaster did it last time I think, but he is busy elsewhere.