Literary Noli Me Tángere by José Rizal

[Bookworm_Girl]

Originally Posted by sun surfer

Thank you, issybird. I've updated the first post with the alternate title; the various translators (or publishers) have definitely been free with the title over the years, hm?

The different titles are amusing, especially since the original Latin title is quoted from John 20:17, when Jesus newly-risen speaks to Mary Magdalene, "Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father."

At first I wondered why so many translators changed the title when Rizal must have intended it to have a symbolic meaning. Then I found this comprehensive analysis of all the translations, why each translator selected the title that they did and how politics of the time influenced the translations.
http://www.philippinestudies.net/fil...-5250-1-PB.pdf

I think it's worth noting that Guererro took his title Lost Eden from the poem, Mi Último Adiós (My Last Farewell), written by Rizal on the eve of his execution.

There is a fascinating article on Wikipedia about the history and impact of this poem.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mi_%C...imo_adi%C3%B3s

[sun surfer]

Originally Posted by Bookworm_Girl

It's a matter of personal preference probably. The Penguin edition was worth the price difference to me for the extra notes...I prefer to have some of the original Spanish and Tagalog words mixed in with English...

I'm only 40 pages or so in but am enjoying the extra notes in this edition. I'm also enjoying the book which has a nice brisk pace so far. The pages drip with Rizal's sarcasm and caustic humour.

[HomeInMyShoes]

I'm still waiting for my request to show up. Maybe next week I can start.

[caleb72]

I have to admit that I'm not thoroughly enjoying this. About 58% in and I'm stuggling a little.

I'm not hating it and at times it feels a little like The Little World of Don Camillo, but set in the Philippines. However, I do find sections of text are slipping away without making any impression on me.

Originally Posted by sun surfer

I'm only 40 pages or so in but am enjoying the extra notes in this edition. I'm also enjoying the book which has a nice brisk pace so far. The pages drip with Rizal's sarcasm and caustic humour.

Originally Posted by caleb72

I have to admit that I'm not thoroughly enjoying this. About 58% in and I'm stuggling a little.

I'm not hating it and at times it feels a little like The Little World of Don Camillo, but set in the Philippines. However, I do find sections of text are slipping away without making any impression on me.

So two completely different reactions so far. Makes me eager to start myself. Unfortunately special requests to my library system (like obtaining the Lacson-Locsin version) take time.

[ccowie]

I'm up and down with this one as well. I enjoy sections, find them funny and interesting and then I'm just bored for a while.

Part of it is that I'm having a harder time than usual getting consistent images in my mind - houses, streets, clothing etc. I just don't have much of a frame of reference.

[caleb72]

I finished it and the the story definitely became more engrossing. I found the light-hearted and sarcastic humour interesting when contrasted with the brutal injustice prevalent throughout.

The revelation of the big mystery - why Chrisostomo and his father were set upon by Damaso - tied in well to the overall display of Spanish/Religious tyranny in the Philippines. The family itself were not historically innocent either, with wealth and a dark past, the story remained a demonstration of the turning of tides for the Filipino rich; the shakey ground on which they ruled over their inferiors.

Overall I liked the dark nature of the story, which is not surprising if you know me well, but the reading experience wasn't quite what I was hoping for.

[Bookworm_Girl]

Originally Posted by ccowie

I'm up and down with this one as well. I enjoy sections, find them funny and interesting and then I'm just bored for a while.

Part of it is that I'm having a harder time than usual getting consistent images in my mind - houses, streets, clothing etc. I just don't have much of a frame of reference.

I understand how you feel. This website had some fantastic photos that helped me visualize the time period. "30 vintage pictures of people and places in and around Manila, Philippines from the late 1800s to early 1900s."
http://www.philippine-history.org/pi...old-manila.htm

Here are some old maps of Manila and its suburbs.
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/histo...burbs_1898.jpg
http://www.greatwhitefleet.info/A%20...old-Manila.jpg

Originally Posted by Bookworm_Girl

I understand how you feel. This website had some fantastic photos that helped me visualize the time period. "30 vintage pictures of people and places in and around Manila, Philippines from the late 1800s to early 1900s."
http://www.philippine-history.org/pi...old-manila.htm

Here are some old maps of Manila and its suburbs.
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/histo...burbs_1898.jpg
http://www.greatwhitefleet.info/A%20...old-Manila.jpg

Thanks Bookworm_Girl, those photographs are great. What is interesting is they look almost the same, substituting period automobiles, as the photos of Manila included in the Ken Burns series on WWII.

[ccowie]

Originally Posted by Bookworm_Girl

I understand how you feel. This website had some fantastic photos that helped me visualize the time period. "30 vintage pictures of people and places in and around Manila, Philippines from the late 1800s to early 1900s."
http://www.philippine-history.org/pi...old-manila.htm

Here are some old maps of Manila and its suburbs.
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/histo...burbs_1898.jpg
http://www.greatwhitefleet.info/A%20...old-Manila.jpg

Yes, thank you! This really helps and they reveal a Manila that's very different than what I had in mind.

[desertblues]

Well, I have started at last.
I find the introduction(Penguin edition) by Harold Augenbraum very enlightening, but a good foreword is as far/as much as I want to know about any book before I read it. I will save the excellent links of Bookworm_girl (thanks!) for later, when I've finished the book.


edit: the book reminds me of some of the naturalist writers I read; perhaps it is the style or the description of the protagonists.....I don't know, as I'm only at chapter 3.

[Bookworm_Girl]

Originally Posted by desertblues

Well, I have started at last.
I find the introduction(Penguin edition) by Harold Augenbraum very enlightening, but a good foreword is as far/as much as I want to know about any book before I read it. I will save the excellent links of Bookworm_girl (thanks!) for later, when I've finished the book.

edit: the book reminds me of some of the naturalist writers I read; perhaps it is the style or the description of the protagonists.....I don't know, as I'm only at chapter 3.

I haven't read the Introduction by Augenbraum yet. I will read it after I finish the book. I was worried it might have spoilers.

[issybird]

I've been flipping between the Guerrero and Augenbraum translations and Ii prefer Guerrero. It's got a better flow than Augenbraum; I have more of the feeling of total immersion that's a hallmark of nineteenth century novels. In his notes on his translation, Guerroro cites Matthew Arnold's insight that a translation should affect the current reader in the same way the original affected contemporary readers and I think Guerrero is superior in that sense, which makes it a better read for me.

I do like Augenbraum's notes, but I'll add that at times Guerrero incorporates an explanation into his text that Augenbraum doesn't annotate, so there's something of a toss-up between the two in that respect.

Perhaps Lacson-Locsin is a synthesis of the best of both approaches and I look forward to Hamlet53's comments.

[sun surfer]

Originally Posted by Bookworm_Girl

I haven't read the Introduction by Augenbraum yet. I will read it after I finish the book. I was worried it might have spoilers.

Originally Posted by issybird

I've been flipping between the Guerrero and Augenbraum translations and Ii prefer Guerrero. It's got a better flow than Augenbraum; I have more of the feeling of total immersion that's a hallmark of nineteenth century novels. In his notes on his translation, Guerroro cites Matthew Arnold's insight that a translation should affect the current reader in the same way the original affected contemporary readers and I think Guerrero is superior in that sense, which makes it a better read for me.

I do like Augenbraum's notes, but I'll add that at times Guerrero incorporates an explanation into his text that Augenbraum doesn't annotate, so there's something of a toss-up between the two in that respect.

Perhaps Lacson-Locsin is a synthesis of the best of both approaches and I look forward to Hamlet53's comments.

I'm "all in" for the Augenbraum but it's interesting to hear the differences between the two from someone who has both.

I have to say, though I'm quite enjoying Augenbraum's translation I'm finding the notes rather dry, as you allude to. I was hoping for more contextual notes, especially as this text is so foreign, and instead I find many more definition and reference notes. Back when pbooks were the norm I'd still find this extremely useful, and I still do to an extent, but nowadays when I can easily google a tagalog word I don't understand for a quick definition or even photo, having such a large percentage of the notes being of this sort isn't exactly what I would hope for. Especially as there have been quite a few instances as I read and have a question where I find myself thinking, "This would've been the perfect thing to annotate and explain!" and yet it's left alone.

[Bookpossum]

I am just getting into it too - only as far as Chapter 8 at this stage. It hasn't really grabbed me so far, but to be fair I am only reading it in snippets in between various other things, so I need to settle down and read a decent chunk of it at a time.