Sideloading: Own content or "from somewhere else"

[Jessica Lares]

I convert/sideload so I can use the software of my choice, along with the fonts, margins, spacing, etc.

And yes, also because I want to save my investment.

[meeera]

I don't see any option in the poll for sideloading books (bought or library-borrowed) with Adobe Digital Editions, without stripping DRM.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by mgmueller

Strange enough, there's no risk involved.

I wasn't thinking of legal risk. MobileRead and its moderators strongly disapprove of ebook piracy and piracy advocacy.

Anyone advocating ebook piracy is liable to being suspended or banned from MobileRead. Admitting to habitual piracy in a poll is unlikely to be considered advocacy, but I wouldn't want anyone to assume that advocacy was allowed.

[Mort1997]

Originally Posted by HarryT

In my own case it's very much because I've been buying books for an awful lot of years, and from all sorts of different sources, many of which no longer exist (eg FictionWise, BooksOnBoard). Maintaining my ebook library in a single place (Calibre), and sideloading all my content means that I have a single central point where all my books are stored, and no worries about trying to remember where I bought each book from, or what devices I can load it onto. I can read all my books on all my devices.

I totally agree with Harry, I have lost books or access to books after buying from Fictionwise, BoB, WHSmiths, Diesel and Waterstones. Another thread mentioned loss of download links from certain books from Baen. I made friends with Alf and any book I buy is automatically added to my Calibre Library so I read it on whatever device I desire (I am a bit of a ereader tart and don't stay with one company)

[gweeks]

Most of my reading is either library books which have to sideload through ADE, or from Baen. Next on the list are purchases from Amazon. A few of the Amazon purchases are read on my phone, but most get converted to epub and sideloaded to the Nook ST. I have purchased a few books from BN for the Nook, but most of my Nook account came over from fictionwise. Of the 300 books or so that came over from Fictionwise, one had DRM on it at Fictionwise. Calibre can convert almost anything except a PDF to a usable epub.

I forgot to mention. I have 88 books from Embiid. Some of which I also have newer copies from Baen or elsewhere. DRM sucks.

Greg

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by mgmueller

Sideloading content seems to be important for most members in mobileread - and this seems to be one of the main reasons if buying Kobo over Kindle.

Really?
You can sideload Kindles as easily as anything else. From amazon or other sites.
I do it all the time on my mother's KT.

As most other veterans of the PDA age, I keep my archival disinfected books in Calibre libraries organized by format: mobi, epub, and lit. (No pdfs or Adept files allowed to pollute my system.) Multiple backups on my PC, external drive offsite, and my home network NAS. Plus whatever resides in the readers. I cross convert everything. (Except the BAENs, those I just download in the three formats.)

In the old days I only bought lits; these days I buy DRM-free and Kindle. And, as a further backup I have an old Kindle2 for which I can download files to the PC for sideloading. (And disinfecting.) As long as Amazon supports the K2 I don't have to fret over K4PC changes.

Not sure what else I can do to protect my investment but I try to keep up with changes in tech. I might put up an encrypted archive on OneDrive one of these days but not just yet...

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Really?
You can sideload Kindles as easily as anything else. From amazon or other sites.
I do it all the time on my mother's KT....

Yes.
But if you look at this poll https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho....php?t=249989:
10 members prefer Kobo and 10 deem sideloading important.
Not necessarily exactly the same 10 people, but there obviously is a correlation.
And quite understandably: Personally, I'd always buy a reader with SD expansion when sideloading. a.) It can be easier to move content to an exchangeable SD card than to internal memory. b.) When sideloading, I wouldn't want to be limited to a meager 2GB or 4GB. And personally, I'd always sideload in the widest spread format, not a format mainly used by a single vendor.

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by meeera

I don't see any option in the poll for sideloading books (bought or library-borrowed) with Adobe Digital Editions, without stripping DRM.

I wasn't focusing on how to sideload, but on the sources of the sideloaded content.
Yes, you can sideload to (almost?) all systems. Kindles for example as easily as Kobos.
Yes, you can sideload DRM-free but with DRM as well.

But the point I was interested in -as difficult as it may be re. discussing piracy and such- is about the nature of sideloading.

Basically, I'd like to see, how big the correlation between sideloading and piracy really is. I'm absolutely sure, there is some correlation. Maybe not for most mobileread members, but certainly for the rest of users.
For example, I would guess there are more pirated books on Kobos due to SD card, ePUB and such, than on Kindles due to rigid ecosystem and limited storage.

[fjtorres]

Correlation is not causation.
You need sideloading (via USB, SD, or download) but you don't need to be a pirate to benefit from sideloading.

And if you only focus on USB sideloading, Kindles benefit more from it than Kobo's because they don't have SD expansion. I would expect that the *hardware* feature that most drives sales of Kobos over Kindles to be SD, not a feature they have in commonlike sideloading.

On the software side, I could see generic epub compatibility as being the biggest driver.

[Synamon]

Originally Posted by mgmueller

Yes.
But if you look at this poll https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho....php?t=249989:
10 members prefer Kobo and 10 deem sideloading important.
Not necessarily exactly the same 10 people, but there obviously is a correlation.
And quite understandably: Personally, I'd always buy a reader with SD expansion when sideloading. a.) It can be easier to move content to an exchangeable SD card than to internal memory. b.) When sideloading, I wouldn't want to be limited to a meager 2GB or 4GB. And personally, I'd always sideload in the widest spread format, not a format mainly used by a single vendor.

Correlation does not equal causation. It is equally easy to sideload to a Kindle as to a Kobo.

I sideload all content. I want a DRM-free copy of all my purchases and I organize these in calibre so the ebooks are all in my computer and I transfer via USB to my eReaders. I sideload library ebooks too, since that is the way to get them onto my Kobo.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by mgmueller

For example, I would guess there are more pirated books on Kobos due to SD card, ePUB and such, than on Kindles due to rigid ecosystem and limited storage.

I think you would be guessing wrong. I'm not quite following why you believe the Kindle's ecosystem to be more rigid than Kobo's? The vast majority of all people using ereaders stick entirely within their device's ecosystem. Those that do sideload, do so easily regardless of the device. I believe the availability of SD cards effects the tiniest fraction of users, myself. And as for the number of pirated books ... I would say the sheer number of Kindles out there compared to Kobos guarantees that Kindles contain the lion's share of sideloaded content--illicit or otherwise (not that I think the statistic is very relevant in the GSoT).

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

...I'm not quite following why you believe the Kindle's ecosystem to be more rigid than Kobo's?...

First of all, there's the file format, which of course is part of the ecosystem.
Yes, you can use mobi/azw on a few units outside of the Kindle environment. But it's way less wide spread than ePUB. If you look for pirated content, ePUB is at least 10 times as often available as mobi/azw.

Second, there's the SD card expansion.
I know quite a few people, who carry their calibre library on an SD card and simple switch cards when buying a new reader. One of my friends even uses the very same SD card on his tablets via USB = one SD card for all units.

By "ecosystem" I don't just mean store and OS, but all the other hardware and software aspects as well = the system as a whole.

Technically, of course you can sideload to all kind of hardware. And if you use calibre, you easily can generate 3 target formats instead of a single one.

Again: In my personal surroundings, every single one who wants to sideload went for Kobo, none for Kindle. Nooks don't matter here in Germany, Sony basically has disappeared as well. I simply would like to see, whether my friends (who aren't enthusiasts and who aren't members on mobileread) act the same as most sideloaders or not. Obviously, in mobileread there's another attitude towards reading, books and hardware, so it won't be statistically valid. Still interesting to compare...

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

...I would say the sheer number of Kindles out there compared to Kobos guarantees that Kindles contain the lion's share of sideloaded content--illicit or otherwise (not that I think the statistic is very relevant in the GSoT).

In absolute figures.
But in relative ones?

Again, I only can use my personal surroundings as a base for now.
But none of the Kindle owners in my periphery is sideloading much. From what I hear, maybe a handful books per year. All of them state, they bought Kindles for the Amazon store and exclusively buy from there.
On the other hand, all sideloaders I know bought Kobos. For ePUB and some for the SD card.

My friends with readers definitely are too small a group for any valid statistics.
None of them has PocketBooks or any other reader without a connected store.
But in total figures, this kind of users probably makes up for 75% of users.

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

...Those that do sideload, do so easily regardless of the device....

In my personal, albeit limited, experience it's the other way around.

Those that do sideload carefully consider their purchase.

The other ones usually decide for the store and then the respective reader. From what I see, I'd say 75% is Amazon then.
But the ones that do sideload, take way more aspects into consideration.

A friend wanted to see my collection of readers exactly for that.
His questions never even remotely had been about store or prices for books.
It all was:
- What kind of file formats can each reader process natively?
- Is there an exchangeable SD card?
- Can I transfer from NAS, cloud and such?
- Is there a Linux filesystem/OS or something else one can work with?
And, like I wrote before, he was the one with the ROI calculation: "150 Euro for the reader, 15 Euro per book, about 2 books per month, so in less than 6 months I'm even when buying the reader".

But I only know about a dozen people with readers, so it's not really a statistically relevant group...

[mgmueller]

Just a general thought:

I very often read about budget for buying a reader and such.
I always ask myself:
If people have to calculate, whether they can afford another 20 Euro for their hardware: How can they ever afford the content.
Maybe I'm a bit extreme in my spending frenzy.
But for me, content is way more expensive than hardware.
For each new gadget, I easily spend a few hundred Euro in the week after purchase. Some stuff I re-purchase (had it on another platform and want to have it again. Navigon for example I have at least on half a dozen of platforms), some stuff is new and one of the reasons for the new gadget to begin with.
Isn't this alone indicator enough, how wide spread pirating content is?
I have the feeling, members in mobileread are far more willing to pay for their enthusiast's hobby, than the general public.

My calculation:
One is using a reader maybe 2 years. (Personally I don't, I will have a replacement in a few months. But people who plan their invest that carefully probably use their gadgets way longer).
If one has to take a price difference of 20 Euro into consideration, which comes down to 1 Euro per month of usage: How should they ever buy 10 or even 100 books per year?

Yes, there are public libraries.
And yes, there are freebies from Amazon, Kobo and the likes.
Still: Whenever I read such discussions, follow-up costs are the first thing that comes into my mind.
And, like I wrote before, at least in my limited group of about 10 friends with readers, it's exactly that way...

Personally, I was a bit shaken by such statements of a few friends.
But I don't agree to other of their statements as well, for example: "Okay, then I'll order those 3 readers, test them and will keep one"...