A dialog with Borders

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by dhbailey

I never make my purchasing decisions in the technology realm based on the knowledge of the tech support personnel (or even the customer service personnel) -- if I did that, I'd never buy anything technological, because they're ALL clueless!

That's very harsh, David; there are many companies who are both knowledgeable and extremely helpful. The level of technical knowledge and customer service at Fictionwise, for example, is nothing short of superb, in my experience. That's the main reason that I buy so many books there.

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by spec2

Just a couple quick thoughts:

1) Remind me again which B&N coupons are good towards eBooks

Perhaps I wasn't clear in my post. B&N doesn't sell e-books so discount coupons for e-books are a nonissue with B&N. I was commenting on Borders' customer service at our local Borders store and reflecting that when I buy p-books, I go to my local B&N and not to Borders. I also do not shop at Amazon, preferring B&N.com for p-books that I buy online.

For e-books, I have bought directly from Baen and Sony, and am considering buying a membership in Fictionwise (I haven't yet done so because I currently enough e-books to read for the next several months, as well as enough p-books for the next several years). I have always gotten good customer service from B&N so I buy from B&N. When I did buy at Borders, the customer service was so bad that I simply stopped. Nothing to do with e-books, just to do with customer service.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by dhbailey

The only thing I would add to this discussion is that for content I wish I had bought a Kindle, but for the reading experience I am definitely glad I bought the Sony, and when my PRS 500 breaks, I will definitely buy a PRS505, not a Kindle.

I have both a PRS-500 and a Kindle and I think the "reading experience" on them is the same. The Kindle does have 6 font sizes to the Sony's three. Finding content I want at a decent price and getting it onto the device is much easier with the Kindle. (The better Kindle screen not withstanding because the 505 resolves that.)

In addition to the "reading experience" the Kindle adds the ability to lookup words using the dictionary, annotate books, take clippings of books, search through the books on the device, use Wikipedia from the device, jump to a title or author on the menu screen, etc.

But, to each his own.

BOb

[RickyMaveety]

Originally Posted by Gideon

I really think you're asking too much. TCV put it well.

I agree with your point, in general.... but that's also "how it is." You don't have to pay to be in the Rewards program, it's free. But there are other companies involved in this business, and just having Borders involved doesn't mean their discounts mean anything or that you should even, really, expect it.

When you're getting discounts, etc, for free.... I think the "gift horse in the mouth" adage is appropriate. If you bought a Sony Reader and were thinking you'd get a discount then you didn't read the print on every single coupon Rewards offers that says, clearly, that these do not apply to electronic devices. Either way, it may be a point of contention but I was getting these emails from you I'd be dismissive, too.

Maybe I missed something, but wasn't the author of this thread talking about having Borders Rewards tagged to the content?? I mean, rather than the electronic device?? Granted, the coupons cannot be used for "electonic devices" ... so .... why should that mean they cannot be applied to electronic content? I see the two things as very different.

If Borders was smart (and there are very few commercial organizations out there that I consider "smart"), they would sell content for the digital readers they sell, and, they would make it a part of Border's Rewards just to encourage people to purchase more ... of whatever content they sell.

It's all about getting the consumer (1) in the door -- whether in your physical store or online, (2) interested in your product, (3) and out the door, product in hand feeling like they got a good deal, that (4) you make a nice profit on.

Pretty simple really, and I don't think Border's response shows it has the slightest handle on that.

[Elsi]

Originally Posted by RickyMaveety

Maybe I missed something, but wasn't the author of this thread talking about having Borders Rewards tagged to the content?? I mean, rather than the electronic device?? Granted, the coupons cannot be used for "electonic devices" ... so .... why should that mean they cannot be applied to electronic content? I see the two things as very different.

Even if they won't accept your Reward certificates toward purchase of an e-Book, if they gave you the Reward points for buying the e-Book, then they'll see you coming back to spend that Reward coupon on paper books. And if you do that in a brick & mortar store, then you're likely to give in to impulse and spend even more. 'Cause we know that bibliophiles who keep up with Reward coupons have very little self-control when it comes to shopping in a book store!

[Taylor514ce]

To the previous two posters: bingo!

[dhbailey]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

I have both a PRS-500 and a Kindle and I think the "reading experience" on them is the same. The Kindle does have 6 font sizes to the Sony's three. Finding content I want at a decent price and getting it onto the device is much easier with the Kindle. (The better Kindle screen not withstanding because the 505 resolves that.)

In addition to the "reading experience" the Kindle adds the ability to lookup words using the dictionary, annotate books, take clippings of books, search through the books on the device, use Wikipedia from the device, jump to a title or author on the menu screen, etc.

But, to each his own.

BOb

I haven't held a Kindle, and unfortunately since they're not sold in stores, I can't try that out before I buy it, but the device looks like it would be unwieldy to read from single-handed. My PRS500 (and the PRS505 which I have held at Border's) fits my hand perfectly so I can read one handed. The Kindle appears as if it would be more like the newer, elongated paperbacks, which I don't like the balance of in my hand.

And I realize that no two people's hand-size nor finger-strength are identical, so it's the sort of judgement call that can only be made by actually holding them both in my hand and comparing them

I realize the screens are identical (except for the Kindle's wider selection of font sizes, but I'm quite happy with Sony's font sizes) so the actual visual reading experience would be the same. I was referring (not too clearly) about the overall reading experience, where it looks as if the Kindle would have to be held in both hands for balance.

I sure with Amazon would start selling them through stores like Best Buy or B&N or Border's (like that would ever happen) so that we could actually touch one and physically try it out.

[dhbailey]

Originally Posted by HarryT

That's very harsh, David; there are many companies who are both knowledgeable and extremely helpful. The level of technical knowledge and customer service at Fictionwise, for example, is nothing short of superb, in my experience. That's the main reason that I buy so many books there.

You know, I have to admit that I agree with you and I realize my statements were harsh. I should have qualified them to be "hardware and software giants" that I don't depend on the tech support for.

Fictionwise is very knowledgeable and very willing to help, as opposed to larger companies where when you finally speak to a person it's clear they've never used the product but are simply reading from their computer screens or out of a notebook.

[junkml]

Originally Posted by HarryT

That's very harsh, David; there are many companies who are both knowledgeable and extremely helpful. The level of technical knowledge and customer service at Fictionwise, for example, is nothing short of superb, in my experience. That's the main reason that I buy so many books there.

From my experience, Fictionwise is the exception. They are almost the only company that seems to have competent staff. Offhans, I can't think of any other company that had a customer service department that was helpful, or showed the least glimmer of intelligence.

So, when (in my experience) 99% of customer service is clueless, I think his summary qualifies as accurate.

[RickyMaveety]

Originally Posted by junkml

From my experience, Fictionwise is the exception. They are almost the only company that seems to have competent staff. Offhans, I can't think of any other company that had a customer service department that was helpful, or showed the least glimmer of intelligence.

So, when (in my experience) 99% of customer service is clueless, I think his summary qualifies as accurate.

Too true. And, there is nothing worse (short of actual torture) than talking to a customer service rep and becoming all too aware that you know more about the product line than they do. Happens to me constantly when I am purchasing computer parts ... and it makes me crazy.

If you are going to have a department called "customer service" it would be nice if they actually provided some service to the customer. Novel thought, I know .... argh.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by dhbailey

I haven't held a Kindle, and unfortunately since they're not sold in stores, I can't try that out before I buy it, but the device looks like it would be unwieldy to read from single-handed.

I can use the Kindle with a single hand, both right and left. It is a bit heavier than the PRS500, but by lust a little. But, I usually hold it with my left hand and press the turn page button on the right edge with my right hand to turn the page.

I could not use the PRS500 with only my right hand... I guess there is a hack to turn pages with the joystick, but I never installed this.

Originally Posted by dhbailey

I sure with Amazon would start selling them through stores like Best Buy or B&N or Border's (like that would ever happen) so that we could actually touch one and physically try it out.

You can buy a Kindle and return it within 30 days for your money back. With the Sony you probably have the basic 10 day return policy from most stores.

BOb

[Elsi]

Originally Posted by dhbailey

I haven't held a Kindle, and unfortunately since they're not sold in stores, I can't try that out before I buy it, but the device looks like it would be unwieldy to read from single-handed. My PRS500 (and the PRS505 which I have held at Border's) fits my hand perfectly so I can read one handed. The Kindle appears as if it would be more like the newer, elongated paperbacks, which I don't like the balance of in my hand.

And I realize that no two people's hand-size nor finger-strength are identical, so it's the sort of judgement call that can only be made by actually holding them both in my hand and comparing them

It's not the same as holding in your own hand, but here are some quick photos I just took.

I'm right-handed so most of the time, I hold the Kindle in my left hand so I can do other things (like munch bon-bons or sip my diet coke) with my right hand. Here's how I usually hold the Kindle when reading:


and you can see how easy it is to just lift my thumb onto the Next Page (or even the Previous Page) button.


The big problem that I have is that I have had to change the way I hold a book when reading in bed. With paper books, I lay on my left side and hold the book from the top like this:


I then reach over with my right hand to turn the page. But, I'm not comfortable holding the Kindle from the top like that, instead, I prop it against a pillow so I can continue to hold it pretty much the same in bed as when sitting up.

[RickyMaveety]

Now see, I would have trouble holding a paperback like that because a cat would plant him or herself right on top of it. I have to be able to hold the book and turn the pages with one hand, and it needs to be either hand because I never know which side of my body will be cat vacant at any one time.

I'm hoping the Kindle will be the answer to my prayers ... also that it will allow me to read my favorite books again without the need to remove the plexyglass that covers the lower bookshelves everytime I want to get one. Must have the plexyglass because some of my cats are prone to spraying ... not good for books.

[Cthulhu]

@dhBailey:

Am not trying to pick a fight, but if you can find me the e.mail of a president of a big company like Palm or Borders on one of their websites, either I am an incompetent clog or you are a genius.
It seems to me that generally, the only recourse most consumers have to make a complaint is either via a very vague system accessed on a website or using a general toll-free number.
A friend of mine once advised that if I was really so angry, that I should pen/type an actual letter to an exec. Gee, I wonder how many letters addressed to "Senior Executive Officer" c/o Palm, Inc. actually get delivered.

Taylor, I understand your aggravation at lack-lustre resolution of your query. Sometimes contacting the company and getting a ridiculous, off-topic response is worse than never contacting them at all.

On a related note, it is frustrating that all the customer/technical support staff feel obliged to go through their whole "I'm sorry, please allow me to help you with that by following my prolix script" rather than saying "Okay." Second, it stings a little that the threat of lost business really does not phase anyone anymore. Guess there are simply too many consumers for one person's monetary vote to count.

[dhbailey]

I never said you could find the email of the president of a big company like Palm or Borders on their web-sites. And reviewing the messages in this thread, I can't see where anybody claimed that, so I'm not sure why you bring it up.

But you can eventually find their names, if you keep pressing links on the Contact Us page, especially for publicly traded companies where you can find their financial reports, which list the names of the board members and the officers, so you can address mail to them directly and not by any generic "President, Border's Books" term.