You are not the owner of Amazon Ebooks

[Endelyn]

Originally Posted by Skeeve

Do you know anyone who really read any "terms and conditions" besides those really interested in legal stuff?

Even though many people don't read the T&C, ignorance is never an excuse. Harry is totally correct.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Endelyn

Even though many people don't read the T&C, ignorance is never an excuse. Harry is totally correct.

All I said was that it was in the T&Cs, not that anyone bothered to read it .

[avantman42]

Originally Posted by Skeeve

Do you know anyone who really read any "terms and conditions" besides those really interested in legal stuff?

Whether you read them or not, they're what you agree to when you register. Whether or not they're enforceable is another matter entirely. I'm not a lawyer, so I don't really know. However, The Passive Voice had a post recently about the Blurb TOS. This bit is relevant to the question of whether or not a typical website's TOS are enforceable:

While PG doesn’t do litigation any more, he would love to put a great many of these bloated Terms of Service focused on non-lawyers in front of a judge and attack them on various grounds, including unconscionability and impenetrability by persons of normal backgrounds and intelligence.

One of the things PG would do is call the CEO of the company to the witness stand and ask him/her to explain the meaning of various parts of the TOS. That would be a lovely show.

One of the most basic principles of contract law is that a contract constitutes a meeting of the minds between two parties. If a TOS is so complex and lengthy that a non-lawyer mind cannot understand it, how can two minds meet?

[Glorfindel]

Technically, anything that has an annual tax, as well as any digital item you buy is license only. Like HarryT said

[Rizla]

So, does that mean if I buy a book from Amazon, they can remove it from my Kindle without my permission? Oh, hang on...

[Rizla]

Or does it mean that Amazon can simply deny me access to all my books on my Kindle without giving a clear reason for it? Oh, hang on...

[HarryT]

What do you mean by "oh, hang on"?

[fjtorres]

I love how standard industry practices--demanded by the big publishers (just ask TOR)--are blamed on Amazon. And the magical industry standard is assumed to be totally different just... because.

Oh, well...
News have been slow lately...

[SleepyBob]

Originally Posted by HarryT

What do you mean by "oh, hang on"?

That it already happens, so it shouldn't be a surprise.

[jscarbo]

As an early adopter of ebooks in 2001, I found myself burned repeatedly as technology and devices changed and I lost access to my RCA/Gemstar, Franklin Bookman and Microsoft Lit ebooks. Fortunately, a large percentage of my early ebooks were purchased in DRM-free multi-format editions from Baen and Fictionwise so it wasn't nearly as bad as it could have been.

I now buy most of my ebooks from Amazon and still try to buy DRM-free editions if possible. If not, Calibre and the apporpriate plug-ins allow me to store and protect my library against future loss of access.

The limited license granted by Amazon and other ebook sellers' terms of service and their incompatible proprietary formats are absurd. I treat them with the same degree of contempt they demonstrate towards their customers and simply ignore them.

I'd love to see meaningful reform of copyright law that balances the rights of the copyright holders with those of consumers but so long as the publishers lobby remains so powerful and well-funded, such reform isn't likely to happen anytime soon.

[jgaiser]

Originally Posted by jscarbo

I'd love to see meaningful reform of copyright law that balances the rights of the copyright holders with those of consumers but so long as the publishers lobby remains so powerful and well-funded, such reform isn't likely to happen anytime soon.

Ah yes. The Golden Rule. He who has the gold, makes the rules.

On the other hand, nobody that I know of has been held at gunpoint to agree to the terms of service. If you don't like the rules, go play somewhere else. Help save some bookstores.

[Skeeve]

Just for clarification: I did not mean to say that not reading the T&C is an excuse.

But I'd like to point out that, not being able to resell your used ebooks might be forbidden by the T&C but this could very well be against the law.

At least here in Europe the European court of justice decided that software licenses can be resold if you do not longer use them (Case C‑128/11).

While there is currently no judgement (verdict? decision?) in regards to ebooks, I would bet that the result wouldn't be so much different.

[DiapDealer]

I'm still the captain of my soul though, right? Just wanna check.

[jviscosi]

The first sale doctrine as it applies (or doesn't apply) to digital goods comes up a lot on a law and technology podcast that I listen to, particularly in respect to ReDigi, a service that was trying to facilitate the resale of digital music files. ReDigi's approach was that the original owner would lose access to the digital media after reselling it, although I have no idea how anyone could enforce such a provision given that one could burn audio files (DRM'd or not) to a CD and rip them back in an unprotected format prior to selling the originals. ReDigi has not fared so well in the courts in the US. I am not a lawyer but the digital music and ebook licensing models seem like they would occupy a virtually identical legal space, so the ReDigi precedents would probably be held to apply to eBooks, and would be rather unhelpful to consumer ownership thereof.

A good writeup of a few recent court cases regarding the first sale doctrine, including ReDigi and the resale of digital media, is at Ohio State's library blog. One interesting factoid mentioned there is that Amazon has a patent for a digital resale market, which suggests that Amazon thinks it's okay to resell pieces of one's digital library as long as they get a cut of the proceeds ...

Still, it's been years since I bought an actual book or a CD -- who has room to store all that physical stuff???

[HarryT]

The OP is in India. I very much doubt that US law is of any interest to him.