If Steve Jobs were alive today, should he be in jail?

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

He refused to compromise on aesthetics, and, as a result, quality suffered. The well-known examples are:
...

There's also the case for the mac G4 Cube.

It might be that that "cracks" that developed in the case were merely cosmetic, as the company claimed. But the company wants it both ways. They go to great lengths to boost the priority consumers place on aesthetics, then say consumers have no redress when their devices develop aesthetic flaws soon after the purchase.

[Prestidigitweeze]

Since I live in a country that has been bilked out of billions by Wall Street over the past several years -- a country in which selling the bundled debt of people who are often forced into default now extends from home mortgages and bad stocks to college tuition fees and apartment rent -- I find it odd when people single out an exec who has had so little to do with our financial misfortunes. It begins to look like the bait and switch of the Roman arena.

Post-mortem, Jobs is becoming the Michael Jackson of the tech industry: Famous and quirky enough to channel celebrity stalkers' ire at the bitter realities of the world. (Or is he our hindsight's Boss Tweed?)

I've read Jobs's bio and I'm not about to deny he was dishonest and had -- especially before he was ousted from Apple -- certain traits we associate with nonviolent sociopaths (coldness, charm, impulsiveness, moral indifference, occasional sadism). He even has one of the classic prerequisites: adoptive parents. Add bedwetting and pyromania and you've got a profile.

Then again, so do many, many other CEOs at his level.

Because Jobs wasn't trained as a businessman, and because his style (in the beginning) was more difficult and abrasive than nearly everyone else's, he looks to us like the guiltiest person in the room. And I won't argue that some of Apple's less ethical practices were the legacy of his vision of himself as a hippie capitalist rebel.

In my experience, the most pernicious criminals (cf. those who are responsible for others' deaths) try to stay out of the spotlight. It's taken decades for people to know who the Koch Brothers are, but we've always known about Jobs.

If he were alive, I doubt he'd be in jail, though I also doubt he's never done anything deserving of jail time. But I'm more interested in fairer prosecution of the grotesquely wealthy as a whole than I am in berating the corpse of a man whose legacy is undeniable whether or not you think he was a creator, a thief or both.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Prestidigitweeze

(Or is he our hindsight's Boss Tweed?)

Interesting comparison.

Reminded me of this period piece about the origin of the Macintosh, in which Jobs comes across rather tweedish.
http://www.cs.ucla.edu/~klinger/mac.html

[Prestidigitweeze]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Interesting comparison.

Reminded me of this period piece about the origin of the Macintosh, in which Jobs comes across rather tweedish.
http://www.cs.ucla.edu/~klinger/mac.html

"Mr. Wooziness"?

In those days, Jobs' difficulty and indifference to the health and practical limitations of his engineers -- excuse me, "reality distortion field" -- did make him a figure of secret ridicule at Apple. Jobs also encouraged people whom he actually respected to stand up to him -- apparently, confronting him without backing down was a way of gaining his respect. Perhaps that, too, figured into people's attitudes toward him.

Still, even Wozniak seems to think that the story behind the first Macintosh represents Jobs at his worst and best. Even he seems bitter about the lack of credit that Raskin received.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

I'm sure that the nytimes wouldn't ever exaggerate or over dramatize the facts in order to drum up reader interest in their story.

Before rolling eyes, you might have considered that this link was to an opinion column, not a news story.

However I agree with you that the most plausible reason Jobs wasn't charged with a crime was something to do with the evidence. And you are right about the commonness of backdating.

[cromag]

I wouldn't have wanted to work for the man, but I'm inclined to believe his legacy is on the positive side.

As has already been pointed out, at worst the evidence suggests he (and Apple) might be fined. I haven't heard about anything that might have warranted "jail."

[CommonReader]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

As far as I know, no, there were no threats.

Others report differently:

Additionally, Apple's Jobs threatened Palm with a patent lawsuit if Palm didn't agree to stop soliciting Apple employees. However, then Palm Chief Executive Edward Colligan told Jobs that the plan was "likely illegal," and that Palm was not "intimidated" by the threat.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...A3N1Y120140424

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by CommonReader

Others report differently:

Additionally, Apple's Jobs threatened Palm with a patent lawsuit if Palm didn't agree to stop soliciting Apple employees. However, then Palm Chief Executive Edward Colligan told Jobs that the plan was "likely illegal," and that Palm was not "intimidated" by the threat.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...A3N1Y120140424

Very Tweed-ish.
The more I think on it, the more appropriate the comparison seems.

[Barcey]

I thought the Times piece was good. Like a lot of execs he thought the rules didn't apply to him, even when they're criminal antitrust laws. The problem is that when we as a society don't tell them they do apply, it reinforces the behavior. Personally I believe that it they don't respect the law they don't deserve the protection of the law.

That's not how they think though, they are special and the criminal antitrust laws don't apply to them but their customers are supposed to be sheep that follow the laws.

The really sad thing is that Jobs just pulled together, inspired and drove the people that built the products. He was then the one that screwed them by not allowing those same people to take their skills to the free market and earn their full potential.

Apple built a lot of good products that I'm sure they wouldn't have without him but he was complicated and yes he deserved to serve jail time.

[CommonReader]

It's somewhat ironic that many Apple fans used to portray Jobs as some sort of late-hippy good guy as compared to supposedly corporate-greed-personified Bill Gates. Yet Gates retired from heading MS and donated about a gazillion Dollars to fight horrible diseases in Africa, while Jobs was obsessed with beating the competition till the day he kicked the bucket.

[Prestidigitweeze]

I'm no believer in Jobs as an especially good person, but if you think Gates hasn't contributed directly to the fall of civilization with his charter schools and furthering of neoliberal privatization at the expense of ordinary citizens, then you're paying too much attention to his tax write-offs and pro bono work -- pro bono: that exercise in hindsight in which the corrupt try to buy back their incinerated souls -- and not enough to his primary focus over the past several decades.

Pitting Gates against Jobs means falling for Jobs' false distinction. Wozniak would tell you that both men took open options away from the user in different ways. See Gates's famous "Open Letter to Hobbyists," in which he railed against open software long before Jobs did. Note the castigation of hobbyist users as "thieves."

Windows is an incredibly useful platform and, like Jobs, Gates has accomplished a lot -- even more so as an actual engineer. But that doesn't make him particularly fair or good -- he simply looks like a fairer and less egotistical guy. He's quieter and more restrained, but that doesn't mean his actions are innately more moral.

[Barty]

Exactly one top banker in the financial crisis went to jail, and their crimes were orders of magnitude worse. So no, Steve Jobs wasn't going to jail.

At that same time, this in no way precludes corporations from having first amendment rights.

On the positive side, I'm sure if a Jobs had been caught on tape telling his girlfriend not to bring black people to his party, his ass would've been toast.

Welcome to America c. 2014

[Rizla]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

I'm guessing that if he had been sent to jail, we would have seen a storming of the jail tha would've made the Bastille incident look like a picnic.

Lol. Is that a joke? Otherwise you win absurd post of the day.

[Rizla]

Originally Posted by jswinden

Compared to the likes of Henry Ford who sent Pinkerton Agency goons to shoot and kill striking workers, and Carnegie who did the same, Jobs seems like a saint.

Foxcon Suicide Nets

It's the same barbarism but moved out-of-sight to China, etc. It's still going on and coming soon to a Western 'democracy' near you.

[elcreative]

Originally Posted by Rizla

Foxcon Suicide Nets

It's the same barbarism but moved out-of-sight to China, etc. It's still going on and coming soon to a Western 'democracy' near you.

According to other reports, things have improved since your quoted post of over two years ago...