Getting depressed

[GeoffC]

Originally Posted by Argel

Given that the Millennium Act provides for fines of $500,000 and five years in prison for circumventing DRM, I am amazed at the optimism of people who are cheerfully doing just that and then putting the files onto a device that is in constant radio contact with a company which relies on DRM to protect its bottom line. Good luck with that.

At least the Cybook doesn't have to divulge its contents to the world , so circumventing DRM , or otherwise doesn't have to be known .

I too worried about the longer-term possibilities that my next reader may not be able to read my present library - but life's too short for that kind of worry .

If it does happen there will , I'm sure , be ways around it - albeit illegal perhaps , but if I've spent money on e-books then I think " fair use " should allow me to adjust the e-book structure to fit any new reader formats , in much the same way that there is a tacit acceptance that a CD can be burned onto an MP3 player for own use .

[ProfJulie]

Originally Posted by Argel

Good question. Same reason we buy from Amazon even though it means the little bookshop down the road is going to disappear, along with the owner who devoted his life to spreading the love of books. Or from the supermarket even though it kills off the small shopkeeper who treated us like a friend.

It's better for me.

Actually it is one of the reasons, I did not buy a Kindle for myself.

[Alisa]

Originally Posted by Argel

Never said that Amazon would shut down Mobi, but it does make sense for them to ensure that Mobi DRMed books don't open on the Kindle - or at least those which were bought from other vendors - and vice-versa. It's one of the ways in which they will seek to make the Kindle a 'must have'.

My theory on why they don't interoperate is that Mobipocket has agreements with the companies that sell books in its format that it shall not undercut the price. Mobipocket.com sells books. You'll notice the prices are insane compared to other resellers. This agreement is why. I think Amazon is trying to keep the Mobipocket business and the Kindle business separate so it can argue that it is not violating this agreement while still being able to charge competitive prices. The .azw books, despite being Mobipocket format, are not nominally the same and cannot be read on Mobipocket software or anything other than a Kindle without using ToS-violating and possibly illegal methods.

Like Harry said, Kindle is only US. There are still plenty of people around the world that make a good market for Mobipocket.

[bwaldron]

Originally Posted by ProfJulie

Actually it is one of the reasons, I did not buy a Kindle for myself.

Same here.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by Alisa

My theory on why they don't interoperate is that Mobipocket has agreements with the companies that sell books in its

There is another reason. If they only have their own format can can update all software in the Kindles they can change the format so it supports new things. If people could buy MobiPocket books then they could not offer this new functionality for MobiPocket books and the total experience of the reader would be less.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Alisa

You'll notice the prices are insane compared to other resellers.

Even worse, if you live in an EU country you get charged the French VAT rate of 19.6% on top of the already high prices .

Given the favourable state of the US$ against both the Euro and the Pound, it makes a lot more sense for us Europeans to use US bookstores like Fictionwise.

[Argel]

Originally Posted by ProfJulie

Actually it is one of the reasons, I did not buy a Kindle for myself.

An interesting answer, despite fact that I was referring to cheap internet books as the cause of the loss of bookstores, not Kindles. But, allowing the subject to be changed, no-one who switches to ebooks can excuse themselves from the guilt of the local bookstore's closure. Buy paper locally and the store stays open. Not rocket science.

Change hurts; the least we can do is accept our complicity in the pain - especially when the main reason is so we can have neat new gadgets.

[Argel]

Originally Posted by GeoffC

At least the Cybook doesn't have to divulge its contents to the world , so circumventing DRM , or otherwise doesn't have to be known .

I too worried about the longer-term possibilities that my next reader may not be able to read my present library - but life's too short for that kind of worry .

If it does happen there will , I'm sure , be ways around it - albeit illegal perhaps , but if I've spent money on e-books then I think " fair use " should allow me to adjust the e-book structure to fit any new reader formats , in much the same way that there is a tacit acceptance that a CD can be burned onto an MP3 player for own use .

I agree with everything you say. Fair use means that I take the stuff I have paid full price for and use it on any device I choose. Sadly, however, our American friends have passed a law saying that if we break their DRM we can go to jail for a long time. And as every UK citizen knows, if the US wants us then we will be handed over. But rest assured that I will sign the petition protesting at your extradition.

Seriously though, my main problem is that I think that the Kindle is going to be the only game in town for those who want the widest, cheapest and most immediate range of choices. And if I have a Kindle - soon, please God - then Jeff will know if I do naughty things with it.

[Argel]

Originally Posted by Alisa

My theory on why they don't interoperate is that Mobipocket has agreements with the companies that sell books in its format that it shall not undercut the price. Mobipocket.com sells books. You'll notice the prices are insane compared to other resellers. This agreement is why. I think Amazon is trying to keep the Mobipocket business and the Kindle business separate so it can argue that it is not violating this agreement while still being able to charge competitive prices. The .azw books, despite being Mobipocket format, are not nominally the same and cannot be read on Mobipocket software or anything other than a Kindle without using ToS-violating and possibly illegal methods.

Maybe I'm being stupid - often the case - but I'm not sure I see the arument here. You think that the publishers won't notice that Amazon is using basically the same format to publish books cheaper?

In any case, why does Amazon need to tread carefully? Who do you think really owns the book market today - Amazon or the publishers?

[bwaldron]

Originally Posted by Argel

Seriusly though, my main problem is that I think that the Kindle is going to be the only game in town for those who want the widest, cheapest and most immediate range of choices.

Maybe. At present, though, among the books I am interested in, I don't find anything available for the Kindle that I can't get for my Cybook in Mobi format. And my average book price via Fictionwise & BooksOnBoard is about the same.

The availability of tools to strip DRM will make those books usable if I decide to upgrade to the next generation Kindle. Not that I would advocate using such tools, of course.

[Argel]

Originally Posted by bwaldron

The availability of tools to strip DRM will make those books usable if I decide to upgrade to the next generation Kindle. Not that I would advocate using such tools, of course.

Of course you wouldn't. Not least because your future Kindle would immediately tell Jeff that you had loaded illegal files onto it.

[Nate the great]

Originally Posted by Argel

Maybe I'm being stupid - often the case - but I'm not sure I see the arument here. You think that the publishers won't notice that Amazon is using basically the same format to publish books cheaper?

In any case, why does Amazon need to tread carefully? Who do you think really owns the book market today - Amazon or the publishers?

Oh, they know about it. They just don't care. In this case we are talking about books licensed to Mobipocket from publishers. The publisher sets the retail price, and the publisher gets paid a percentage of that retail price for each book sold.

Mobipocket sells ebooks, but it also distributes ebooks to other retail websites. Amazon is of the retailers. If Amazon chooses to sell some ebooks for less than retail, it doesn't matter to the publisher because the publisher's cut is based on the suggested retail price. The amount the publisher is paid doesn't change if the ebook is sold for less.

[Alisa]

Yes. It's not the publishers I was referring to possibly having an issue, but the other resellers of Mobipocket books.

[Argel]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

Oh, they know about it. They just don't care. In this case we are talking about books licensed to Mobipocket from publishers. The publisher sets the retail price, and the publisher gets paid a percentage of that retail price for each book sold.

Mobipocket sells ebooks, but it also distributes ebooks to other retail websites. Amazon is of the retailers. If Amazon chooses to sell some ebooks for less than retail, it doesn't matter to the publisher because the publisher's cut is based on the suggested retail price. The amount the publisher is paid doesn't change if the ebook is sold for less.

So in other words, Mobi can sell the ebook for whatever price it chooses, as long as it pays the correct percentage of the agreed retail price? Or have I misunderstood...

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by Argel

So in other words, Mobi can sell the ebook for whatever price it chooses, as long as it pays the correct percentage of the agreed retail price? Or have I misunderstood...

That's what he said. I think I heard somewhere that Amazon was taking a loss on alot of the best sellers... he was hopping publishers would come around and lower the wholsale prices on ebooks rather than price them the same as pbooks.

Although I don't know how amazon taking a loss is going to hurt the publishers or change their minds. Unless he figures the other ebook retailers that don't want to take a loss on these books will together put pressure on the publishers buy not selling these books, or whatever.

BOb