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Old 05-08-2008, 02:57 PM   #16
MarkRPenn
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Originally Posted by jæd View Post
Only if you knew what people's routers were. It might be obvious to Irex, but to to someone who has non-statistical data on this (you + me), then I can't see how you can say this...
Well partly because all of the routers I have trouble with (3 different ones) are N enabled, while I can't find a G router that I can't connect to, but mostly because iRex, who presumably do have the statistical info, told me so! That was the whole point of this thread; to pass on some "Interesting Admissions From Support" regarding the iLiad having trouble with N enabled routers.

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Old 05-08-2008, 03:12 PM   #17
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It sounds like the solution is to get a G router. Obviously the N router is doing "something" different when it runs in G mode versus a real G router.

IMO, I don't understand why people want to buy N routers anyway since the standard hasn't even been finalized. You're just begging to be obsoleted if they tweak the standard before it's released and make the current version incompatible.
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Old 05-08-2008, 03:14 PM   #18
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Not even a thread to see which N-based routers are affected...?
I don't think it'll achieve anything, because A) this forum provides a tiny sample, and B) we can already guess that most people here DON'T have an issue, or we'd have seen other posts.

Plus, I'm not sure it's as simple as "if you have router X you're stuffed, but if you buy router y you'll be fine". One of the routers Thom said they are having issues with is the Apple Airport Extreme, and I'd be stunned if no-one here had one of those, and equally stunned to learn that they'd had issues but not reported them to us. Therefore I think it's safe to assume that some AAE's have issues, while others don't, and knowing that won't help anyone decide whether or not to buy one.

More useful is to know that if you have to have guaranteed N (in mixed mode) compatibility from your e-paper device, especially if you need to connect to a range of routers, don't buy an iLiad until they sort out the issues they know they have.

For the record though, my D-Link is a DIR-655. The Belkin is packed away and I can't remember the model number.

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Old 05-08-2008, 03:49 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Shaggy View Post
It sounds like the solution is to get a G router. Obviously the N router is doing "something" different when it runs in G mode versus a real G router.

IMO, I don't understand why people want to buy N routers anyway since the standard hasn't even been finalized. You're just begging to be obsoleted if they tweak the standard before it's released and make the current version incompatible.
I'm not sure I see how you'd become obsolete, unless you then went out and replaced all your existing devices with ones that conformed to the final standard. They're not going to zap us all with some kind of "final version" ray that'll stop our devices connecting overnight!! And anyway, I'll be surprised if firmware updates aren't released to bring any draft ones onto line if necessary.

People want N for range and speed. Now I have an N router, my Apple TV gets a stronger, more reliable and much faster connection than it did before, with no detriment to any of my G devices (I count 7 of them), except for the iLiad (the 8th). I'm guessing that if they do tweak the standard before rattifying it, all of the above will still be true until I change the router or get a new N device (a new G device will be fine).

From the wifi alliance web site. Emphasis is mine:

"Because the industry has been very eager to bring advanced Wi-Fi technology to market, there are numerous "pre-n" products currently available. However, consumers should be aware that only Wi-Fi CERTIFIED 802.11n draft 2.0 products have been tested for interoperability, standards-based security protections, and backward compatibility with 802.11a, b, and g networks.".

My D-Link is wifi certified, and I think the Belkin was too. I don't remember seeing a certificate with my iLiad, confirming compliance with the G standard, but I could be wrong.

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Old 05-09-2008, 01:33 AM   #20
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What I reaad on Wifi is that when one a,b, or g device is around, *all* n-enabled devices should detect an a/b/g device in the range, and are supposed to then talk in the channel in backward way.... so one non-n device in range, will turn down all of the channel into slow mode. One n-device not turning down, will hinder non-n devices understanding anything in the channel with its for that device ununderstandable "noise"...

So maybe this might also be an issue in your case. Turn all other devices in range off, except the iLiad and your router, and look if no neighbour is contaminating the channel with any troublesome talk... then maybe some routers will work...

When the standard is available, all of the non-standard draft devices will be yet another issue, since some things *are* supposed to change, and honestly when you develop a new protocol its pain enough to be backward compatible to old standards, when you need to be continously backward compatible to any draft, you can understand this people get crazy... so the result is either more crappy than it needed to be, or they ignore draft status compatibility once in a while
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Old 05-11-2008, 02:04 PM   #21
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What I reaad on Wifi is that when one a,b, or g device is around, *all* n-enabled devices should detect an a/b/g device in the range, and are supposed to then talk in the channel in backward way.... so one non-n device in range, will turn down all of the channel into slow mode. One n-device not turning down, will hinder non-n devices understanding anything in the channel with its for that device ununderstandable "noise"...
But surely if that were true (a rogue N device not turning down, and so "blocking" G devices), ALL of my G devices would have issues (not to mention I'd not see the benefit I do from having N, as I ALWAYS have a G device in range?

I'm guessing it's not quite as simple as that!

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Old 05-11-2008, 04:38 PM   #22
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I'm guessing it's not quite as simple as that!
Sure its not as simple as that, as the n devices don't go straight into g mode when a g device is present, but do some hybrid thing, something that shouldn't bother the g device, has higher throughput than pure g, but definetly not as high when no g devices are present.

It was just a suggestion to try it out what happens if you turn all n devices of, but the one n router you want to connect at. And to take care the channel is quiet of neighbours and so on... Maybe it changes something, maybe not.

At least while the channel is crowded, so called tests are might give false negative resuts, as its another device than 2 you are testing, that breaks the connection...
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