Recommendations For A Non-Touchscreen E-Ink Epub Reader With No Other Features

[ProfCrash]

His reason for not wanting a Kindle was because of the walled garden, at least, that is how I interpreted the proprietary comment.

[LouieChuckyMerry]

I have a pile of epubs ready to go; I'm looking for a reader that has the simplest form factor, buttons much preferred (but it seems that buttons with a front-light presently isn't an option). Rooting my girlfriend's Kindle 4 NT was simple-if-slightly-annoying; however, Duokan is a bit inconsistent with regards to font size (or maybe a setting is off, although it's easy enough to choose a font and size). Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I think that if a company made a device without any connectivity that's strictly for reading--maybe two models, one non-touchscreen, one touchscreen--with a six-inch screen, a front-light, 1 GB of storage, and drag-and-drop capability, like a basic music player for ebooks, and sold it for $29.99 (NT)/$39.99 (T), then that company would find a large market. Most people who travel have a smart phone capable of performing myriad online tasks, making a full bells-and-whistles reader rather redundant. I understand that wifi is handy for downloading reading material but I can't believe every single ebook reader in the world needs that capability, and I'd personally love a basic reader that holds 1000 books and does nothing else but display those books, well lit and with e-ink, especially if it was affordable.

ProfCrash: I am quite annoyed by companies that make it difficult for me to use a product I pay my hard earned money for as I see fit (that's why I'll never own anything Apple), and actions such as my girlfriend's Kindle auto-updating its firmware and negating several hours of effort definitely factor into my decision making process when it comes to purchasing something.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by LouieChuckyMerry

Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I think that if a company made a device without any connectivity that's strictly for reading--maybe two models, one non-touchscreen, one touchscreen--with a six-inch screen, a front-light, 1 GB of storage, and drag-and-drop capability, like a basic music player for ebooks, and sold it for $29.99 (NT)/$39.99 (T), then that company would find a large market.

They would also be making a loss of around $20-30 per device, and hence would not remain in business very long.

[Yapyap]

I'd love a good, solid, frontlit 6'' e-reader with buttons for $30 or €30 but considering that the e-readers made by manufacturers who are not counting on making most of their income from book sales, not device sales, tend to cost more than the Amazon or Kobo (or Nook) e-readers, I am assuming that it would be quite impossible to make good quality frontlit e-readers at this point for $30, especially when you're aiming it at people who don't want wireless connectivity and specifically don't want to be tied to the device manufacturer's bookstore.

Perhaps in another few years!

Originally Posted by LouieChuckyMerry

actions such as my girlfriend's Kindle auto-updating its firmware and negating several hours of effort definitely factor into my decision making process when it comes to purchasing something.

Why not keep the Wi-Fi off on your girlfriend's Kindle if you don't want auto-updating? You can always easily sideload any Amazon-bought Kindle books.

[danicca]

I think 8 inch readers don't have touch screen, so perhaps icarus or trekstor have 6 inch option.

[LouieChuckyMerry]

Originally Posted by HarryT

They would also be making a loss of around $20-30 per device, and hence would not remain in business very long.

Originally Posted by Yapyap

I'd love a good, solid, frontlit 6'' e-reader with buttons for $30 or €30 but considering that the e-readers made by manufacturers who are not counting on making most of their income from book sales, not device sales, tend to cost more than the Amazon or Kobo (or Nook) e-readers, I am assuming that it would be quite impossible to make good quality frontlit e-readers at this point for $30, especially when you're aiming it at people who don't want wireless connectivity and specifically don't want to be tied to the device manufacturer's bookstore.

Perhaps in another few years!

Apologies for my ignorance when it comes to ebook reader prices , but my point remains: remove all the connectivity hardware and software and I'd think that the device would be considerably less expensive to manufacture (although Yapyap's point about companies taking a loss on devices to maximize profit on ebooks is valid. Eventually, I think, a smart company not connected to ebook sales will make just such a device).

Originally Posted by Yapyap

Why not keep the Wi-Fi off on your girlfriend's Kindle if you don't want auto-updating? You can always easily sideload any Amazon-bought Kindle books.

Where were you a couple weeks ago .


danicca: are icarus and trekstor manufacturers or models? Thanks.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by LouieChuckyMerry

Apologies for my ignorance when it comes to ebook reader prices , but my point remains: remove all the connectivity hardware and software and I'd think that the device would be considerably less expensive to manufacture

It honestly wouldn't. The comms module is basically a single chip that costs a couple of $. The expensive components of an eInk reader are firstly the screen, and secondly the battery. Having or not having WiFi really makes no difference to the price.

Amazon are basically selling the $69 basic Kindle at cost price - that probably represents pretty much the current baseline price for what it's feasible to manufacture a decently-spec'ed reader for in bulk. The PW is $109 - again that's probably about baseline for a front-lit device.

[danicca]

They are manufacturers. Mind you, they are in Europe, and I honestly don't know if they have non touch 6 models, but it doesn't hurt to look.

[Yapyap]

I also suspect that "No connectivity!" would be a sales argument for relatively very few people, making it very much a niche product - while there are those of us here who shop around freely, are able to remove DRM and convert to any format, and don't think twice about sideloading, the entire "buy from [shop XX with big selection] and download automatically to read instantly on your e-reader" is a big draw for the majority of people who are perfectly happy to buy all their reading material from either Amazon, Kobo or Barnes & Noble.

As I said above, perhaps in a few years - I wouldn't be at all surprised if the components needed for a basic e-reader (mainly the screen, I assume) would eventually come down in price enough to make cheap, but still good, non-store-tied devices possible.

As it is now, when manufacturers with names unfamiliar to the general public struggle to keep the prices of their devices, which might be as good as the Kindles or Kobos but objectively no better (but may struggle with looking worse design-wise, being slower and having patchy or non-existent support), near the same level as those Kindles or Kobos and are often even more expensive, it does seem to indicate that offering cheap-but-decent basic devices without having a large bookshop to rely on for the actual income is currently not possible.

One option for a non-Kindle, non-Kobo, non-Nook frontlit reader with buttons that I can think of and have actually seen in person is the Pocketbook Touch Lux. It seemed to handle relatively okay, isn't tied to any bookshop and handles a multitude of formats, but it has a touchscreen (in addition to buttons) and Wi-Fi and costs around €180 here, and frankly I found my Kindle Paperwhite to look better and handle faster.

That's about the best you can currently expect though outside the big players and for an eInk reader that is both frontlit and has buttons. (I think there are others - I see an Onyx Boox i62 HD Angel Glow being sold online here, that also has buttons and is frontlit, but also has touchscreen and Wi-Fi and costs ~€200, and I assume there are also some more options - but they're all relatively niche products that may not be easy to find in local shops, and I don't know how well their support works, should it be needed. And also, they are more expensive.)

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Yapyap

As it is now, when manufacturers with names unfamiliar to the general public struggle to keep the prices of their devices, which might be as good as the Kindles or Kobos but objectively no better (but may struggle with looking worse design-wise, being slower and having patchy or non-existent support), near the same level as those Kindles or Kobos and are often even more expensive, it does seem to indicate that offering cheap-but-decent basic devices without having a large bookshop to rely on for the actual income is currently not possible.

When Amazon sell the Kindle at cost, relying on content sales for their profit, it's extremely difficult for anyone to compete on cost terms because:

1. They need to make a profit on selling the device itself.
2. They almost certainly won't be able to match Amazon's bulk discounts on the cost of manufacturing the device, because Amazon are manufacturing in enormously greater volumes.

The successful manufacturers who are not associated with a bookstore have to compete by offering premium products and sell on features, rather than price.

[Yapyap]

Originally Posted by HarryT

When Amazon sell the Kindle at cost, relying on content sales for their profit, it's extremely difficult for anyone to compete on cost terms because:

1. They need to make a profit on selling the device itself.
2. They almost certainly won't be able to match Amazon's bulk discounts on the cost of manufacturing the device, because Amazon are manufacturing in enormously greater volumes.

The successful manufacturers who are not associated with a bookstore have to compete by offering premium products and sell on features, rather than price.

That was pretty much what I was getting at, yes - that the fact that the not-well-known manufacturers currently price their products above, say, Amazon's level pretty much indicates that this is a necessity.

If they had any option to compete on price (and still stay in business), I'd rather assume they'd do so, because they can't really compete in added value (such as an associated bookstore) or brand recognition.

The best they can do is offer a decent-quality device (and other than Sony's readers, I don't think any of the others, although their products are probably perfectly fine, can claim to offer better quality than Amazon or Kobo) that has more features - touchscreen and buttons, Wi-Fi, reading almost every format known to man, audio/MP3 support, etc.

Which of course doesn't help in bringing the price down - but leaving those options off certainly wouldn't reduce the price nearly enough to make them competitive on just price.

[LouieChuckyMerry]

HarryT & Yapyap: thank you very much for the crash course in EBook Economics, I now have a much better idea of the obstacles and options in my pursuit of the perfect reader . Now to attack...

[HarryT]

There are companies who have done it "on the cheap", Louie. There's a German company (I think they're German) who produce a reading device which is basically a modified digital photo frame, to which graphical images of each page in the book are sent. An ingenious idea, but not really very practical for the keen reader who wants to maintain a large library.

[ProfCrash]

Originally Posted by LouieChuckyMerry

I have a pile of epubs ready to go; I'm looking for a reader that has the simplest form factor, buttons much preferred (but it seems that buttons with a front-light presently isn't an option). Rooting my girlfriend's Kindle 4 NT was simple-if-slightly-annoying; however, Duokan is a bit inconsistent with regards to font size (or maybe a setting is off, although it's easy enough to choose a font and size). Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I think that if a company made a device without any connectivity that's strictly for reading--maybe two models, one non-touchscreen, one touchscreen--with a six-inch screen, a front-light, 1 GB of storage, and drag-and-drop capability, like a basic music player for ebooks, and sold it for $29.99 (NT)/$39.99 (T), then that company would find a large market. Most people who travel have a smart phone capable of performing myriad online tasks, making a full bells-and-whistles reader rather redundant. I understand that wifi is handy for downloading reading material but I can't believe every single ebook reader in the world needs that capability, and I'd personally love a basic reader that holds 1000 books and does nothing else but display those books, well lit and with e-ink, especially if it was affordable.

ProfCrash: I am quite annoyed by companies that make it difficult for me to use a product I pay my hard earned money for as I see fit (that's why I'll never own anything Apple), and actions such as my girlfriend's Kindle auto-updating its firmware and negating several hours of effort definitely factor into my decision making process when it comes to purchasing something.

Fair enough. Although I prefer that to the many ways people try to say it (walled garden, proprietary, all that fun). I would point to the fact that many of the e-readers out there do the same thing or try and do the same thing but that is a different discussion.

As for e-readers without connectivity: Sony released a model without WiFi after Kindle and Nook had WiFi versions. It didn't work out well for Sony.

I think part of what is happening on this site, and probably others, is that die hard e-reader users and programmers come with a dream device in mind. Posters don't see why WiFi, page buttons, touch screen, removable battery, sd card, whatever it is is or is not available on device X. Said feature is/is not important for them and they know others who feel the same so why is it/isn't it there?

There are a lot of niches but e-readers don't sell enough to make niche devices. There is a reason that only Kobo makes a 5 inch screen, it didn't sell great for Sony (otherwise they would have continued theirs) and Amazon and Nook don't think it will sell well for them. There is a very passionate group of folks who love their 5 inch readers and think there should be more of them but it is a niche market.

There is a reason BN removed the buttons for their latest devices. Most people don't care/feel they take up space. BN is the last to remove them but there is a passionate group of folks who are upset by this decision. I admit that I never thought I would buy an e-reader without buttons but I love my PW2.

There is a reason Amazon removed the SD card slot. It was causing problems for them (I remember topics on customer service calls to Amazon because of problems with indexing and other issues on the K1). The Kindle sells really well without out the SD card slot because most people are fine with the space that they have. For those with mega libraries, the Kindle is not an option. Obviously that group is small enough that Amazon is not worried.

What it gets down to is people should look for the device that best suits their needs. I get stating what you want, that is probably why Amazon added library coverage after the Nook had it, but that is best done in an email or letter to the company. I would guess that Amazon added library coverage because they saw Nook sales hurting their sales and not because of what they read on a BB. Sony added WiFi after they saw their sales take a hit and not based on a BB.

[mbovenka]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

For those with mega libraries, the Kindle is not an option. Obviously that group is small enough that Amazon is not worried.

And for those with really large libraries it becomes an option again, because their libraries won't fit on an SD card either