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Old 10-28-2013, 01:18 PM   #16
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Waylander: From what I recall, a large percentage of people e-reading are doing it on smartphones or tablets, so not having an e-reader doesn't mean that someone is entirely cut off from ebooks.

DuskyRose: What you have said is very interesting. How are people on the site responding to this? Are they raising their prices for books? Or is the site membership getting smaller?
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Old 10-28-2013, 01:53 PM   #17
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DuskyRose: What you have said is very interesting. How are people on the site responding to this? Are they raising their prices for books? Or is the site membership getting smaller?
Those who are only interested in pbooks are starting to get worried, and have voiced on the forums that they're noticing fewer books posted and traded.

The site has a set "price" for pbooks. You send a book to someone, paying the postage, and when it's received you get a credit to have someone send you any book posted at the site at no cost to you. The credits bought from the site are priced based on media mail rates, (IIRC) but buying from members is usually a lot lower. Supply and demand.

Otherwise, the site membership is still free, and books are still one credit. I think right now it will be more Wish Listed books (those not posted, so you get in line for them) will have longer waits as fewer are posted.

The complaints so far have been in slower movement on the Wish Lists and smaller selection to chose from. I'm not sure if the site will change prices for credits if the P.O. doesn't raise media mail rates.

At this point, I think that the pbooks moving to trade size is also causing concern. If the pbook isn't coming out in Mass Market Paperback size for $7, but only in Tradeback size for $12-$13 dollars, will people still be willing to swap out a Tradesize book for another Tradesize, or just pay for the ebook if it's cheaper? Or even just sell it somewhere else?

I'm not a Hardback person, nor do I like Tradesize. But It think the cheaper MMPB size is going to be phased out in a few years and that's all that will be left. That may push more people to ebooks, in that they don't like the size or the price.

So there's a lot going on right now, and people will continued to have to re-think their usual choices.
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Old 10-28-2013, 02:57 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuskyRose View Post
Those who are only interested in pbooks are starting to get worried, and have voiced on the forums that they're noticing fewer books posted and traded.

The site has a set "price" for pbooks. You send a book to someone, paying the postage, and when it's received you get a credit to have someone send you any book posted at the site at no cost to you. The credits bought from the site are priced based on media mail rates, (IIRC) but buying from members is usually a lot lower. Supply and demand.

Otherwise, the site membership is still free, and books are still one credit. I think right now it will be more Wish Listed books (those not posted, so you get in line for them) will have longer waits as fewer are posted.

The complaints so far have been in slower movement on the Wish Lists and smaller selection to chose from. I'm not sure if the site will change prices for credits if the P.O. doesn't raise media mail rates.

At this point, I think that the pbooks moving to trade size is also causing concern. If the pbook isn't coming out in Mass Market Paperback size for $7, but only in Tradeback size for $12-$13 dollars, will people still be willing to swap out a Tradesize book for another Tradesize, or just pay for the ebook if it's cheaper? Or even just sell it somewhere else?

I'm not a Hardback person, nor do I like Tradesize. But It think the cheaper MMPB size is going to be phased out in a few years and that's all that will be left. That may push more people to ebooks, in that they don't like the size or the price.

So there's a lot going on right now, and people will continued to have to re-think their usual choices.
I am probably wrong but I can't see the MMPB format being phased out soon. A lot of people buy their books places like supermarkets and drugstores etc. Libraries seem to buy either hard cover or MMPB with the exception in Canada being books by Canadian authors or classics where they will buy the Trade edition.

I think that most paper book readers want their light reading packaged like light reading and buy trade editions only when they are dirt cheap. Lot of exceptions there I know as many people will buy a trade edition of a YA book like Twilight (first book they actually finished they tell me).

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Old 10-28-2013, 03:10 PM   #19
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I am probably wrong but I can't see the MMPB format being phased out soon. A lot of people buy their books places like supermarkets and drugstores etc. Libraries seem to buy either hard cover or MMPB with the exception in Canada being books by Canadian authors or classics where they will buy the Trade edition.

I think that most paper book readers want their light reading packaged like light reading and buy trade editions only when they are dirt cheap. Lot of exceptions there I know as many people will buy a trade edition of a YA book like Twilight (first book they actually finished they tell me).

Helen
I got the idea years ago, from being on various author/publishers forums/lists. What was talked about them by people in the industry (although I can't remember when/where/who) was that with the aging of the Baby Boomers that the big plan of the Publishers was to phase out the MMPB and go to tradesize because they could use the same innerds on Hardback and tradeback, and raise their prices on the tradeback. Thus making more money and getting rid of the MMPB size they didn't like anyway.

The one book that helped me decide to invest in ebooks and not mess with pbooks anymore was the jump in the Dresden file series form the regular MMPB size to the next size up. It was 1inch taller, $2 more expensive and I couldn't fit it on the shelf with the others I bought. If I couldn't fit it on the shelf with the rest of the series, I didn't feel any need to stay with the pbook format anymore.

Now, I don't notice so much because I don't browse BM stores as often, but my daughter has complained more about the tradebook sizes, (she doesn't care for them either, especially since they're more expensive) and I've seen more complaints on pbook forums about the move up to tradebook. (And the fact that publishers can't seem to decide on a regular tradebook size between them.

So, yeah, I've seen enough here and there to lead me to believe those past conversations/discussion were in earnest. Although the ebook explosion may have held them back for a while, I do think tradebook will eventually be the smallest pbook size available.
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Old 10-28-2013, 05:22 PM   #20
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It will probably depend on where you live.
I'm sure you're right. We buy most of our pbooks from 'sites' such as Goodwill and Friends of the Library. Other thrift stores probably sell used books too.

If I did online shopping only I'd probably see things differently-but then I don't understand why I would do online shopping only. I do buy some books from Amazon but I dislike their trickery. Their 1-cent books actually cost $4 after you include shipping. (I'm pretty sure they're making their profit on the shipping because nobody makes a profit selling single items for a penny. IMO that's dishonest.)

Regardless the average price of an ebook seems to be about $10 so I still say used pbooks are cheaper, on average. Yes, you can find ebooks cheaper-you can even find them for free. But is that average?
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Old 10-28-2013, 05:44 PM   #21
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If I did online shopping only I'd probably see things differently-but then I don't understand why I would do online shopping only.
It's not something I think most on the trade side do "only". It's just cheaper at times, and easier to find something that's not available close by.

For me, I used it to find missing books in a series that weren't available in the three UBS's around me. And for a book to get to the FOL, or even Goodwill, or my other favorite book store, someone would have had to buy it and then donate it. If you're not in an area where your favorite genre is well liked, pickings can be slim to none. On-line, the catalogs offerings tend to have a wider selection of pbooks.

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I do buy some books from Amazon but I dislike their trickery. Their 1-cent books actually cost $4 after you include shipping. (I'm pretty sure they're making their profit on the shipping because nobody makes a profit selling single items for a penny. IMO that's dishonest.)
I don't see it as dishonest, and anyone posting a book at 1-cent is hoping to make money from the postage costs. But it's not going to be all that much.

I don't think many people are fooled, if any, with the 1cent sales, and it's the total price that should be what you look for anyway. Since the third-party sellers can't lower the price of the postage at Amazon (IIRC), then they don't have much choice if they want to be competitive. Especially if their postage costs make the transaction worthwhile for them.

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Regardless the average price of an ebook seems to be about $10 so I still say used pbooks are cheaper, on average. Yes, you can find ebooks cheaper-you can even find them for free. But is that average?
It all depends on if you include the free reads or not and average them in. The Amazon Freebies average anywhere from 200 to 2,000 a day, with some books re-offered every three months or so. You can borrow as many as you can read in 14 days from some sites, and then there's the library shelves.

Thinking about it, I buy very few books at $10. I'll stock up when there's a good sale. (I loaded up mostly at Fictionwise before the ebook wars hit) Some genre's tend to run about 99 cents, some $2.99 and most that I actually buy at $6-7.99.

Really, I think only the newer ones run $10 or over, and some authors who are offering their backlist in ebook format for the first time. So it depends on if you can wait until the price drop or a coupon becomes available. There's only a few I buy at full price, but I'm paying to read it NOW and do so knowingly.

Mostly I'm glad to wait for the new books not to be so new any more. So I'm thinking my average costs are well below MMBP prices when averaged out.
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Old 10-28-2013, 05:44 PM   #22
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I'm worried about the loss of paper books until ebooks can cover the breadth of what is out there. Right now it doesn't. In putting my challenge list together, of the 50 for sure entries, only 24 of them are available as ebooks. That leaves me with 26 titles as paper from the library or as other purchases. Until that number is something like 48 of the 50 available, ebooks are a poor substitute when it comes to selection for me.

As long as I keep coming up with weird challenges for my reading lists I'll probably need to rely on used books more and more. I've purchased three paper books already for next year's challenge.
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Old 10-28-2013, 05:50 PM   #23
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1) no used ebook market so ebooks can only kill the used pbook market if people buy new ebooks instead of used pbooks.
No, the idea is: if people buy new ebooks instead of NEW pbooks, then eventually there will be no used pbooks to buy. All used books were new once first.
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Old 10-28-2013, 05:57 PM   #24
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No, the idea is: if people buy new ebooks instead of NEW pbooks, then eventually there will be no used pbooks to buy. All used books were new once first.
Yup.

OTOH, I think I've given more money to publishers and authors since going to ebooks.

Yes, I've bought much more than my share of pbook, but probably 90% of them used. That money might be supporting the trading site, and the local UBS's and FOL's, but really very little money went from me to the author.

Even with all the freebies, now more of my money is going to the writer. Which I think is a very good thing.
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Old 10-28-2013, 07:08 PM   #25
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In Britain the publishers have also made the move away from MMPB's. However, the bigger books that are now the norm, i.e. B format books, are nearly always the same price as their smaller cousins, so I just don't see the point. In fact, some MMPB's (or those that are left) are MORE expensive than the bigger books! How does that work, and what was the reason for changing to a bigger size while still charging basically the same? Even if there is a price rise, it is usually from something like £6.99 to £7-£8.99, which is not that much more, and as I said, the MMPB often cost this in the first place.
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Old 10-28-2013, 07:11 PM   #26
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I love my ereader, but I also love pbooks and there's nothing quite like going to a 2nd hand bookstore and browsing.

I still buy pbooks, but not as much as I used to. I would miss them if they weren't around anymore and I make a special effort buy pbooks at a 2nd hand bookstore first.

I must say I haven't bought a NEW pbook for some years.
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Old 10-28-2013, 07:57 PM   #27
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In Britain the publishers have also made the move away from MMPB's. However, the bigger books that are now the norm, i.e. B format books, are nearly always the same price as their smaller cousins, so I just don't see the point. In fact, some MMPB's (or those that are left) are MORE expensive than the bigger books! How does that work, and what was the reason for changing to a bigger size while still charging basically the same? Even if there is a price rise, it is usually from something like £6.99 to £7-£8.99, which is not that much more, and as I said, the MMPB often cost this in the first place.
As DuskyRose already pointed out you have 77 million baby boomers with declining eyesight. We are pretty much going to be dictating what will or will not sell in all different areas. And anyone who gets a leg up in catering to our needs is going to win.

While most advertising is aimed at the youth, it is our buying power that wins out in the long run.
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Old 10-29-2013, 07:43 AM   #28
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If the budget-conscious are forced to move over to ebooks, will the average quality of their reading material fall?
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Old 10-29-2013, 09:52 AM   #29
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If the budget-conscious are forced to move over to ebooks, will the average quality of their reading material fall?
I don't think price has anything to do with quality, nor any differences between pbooks and ebooks. Especially now, when you can usually get the same book in either format. When it comes to picking something you want to read, and hopefully enjoy, you always have to be careful. And sometimes, you pick a dud. It happens.

I've been burned before by paying way too much for something that turned out, IMHO, to be crap. And I've read some great stuff for free. In both formats.

Also, what's my crap is someone else's re-read treasure. A huge selection is good, and the best answer to quality control is to always chose for yourself. Forget what anybody else likes.
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Old 10-29-2013, 10:06 AM   #30
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If the budget-conscious are forced to move over to ebooks, will the average quality of their reading material fall?
Why would you think that? I used to buy whatever cheap used books I could easily get my hands on, generally they were not high quality. Now that I'm reading ebooks I can access thousands of classics in the public domain for free and have far more choices online as well, often older prize winning books are offered on sale. The quality of my reading has improved dramatically with the introduction of ebooks.

Regarding the OP, I expect there will be a short term glut while ebook converts dump their pbooks in the used market, followed by a shortage of newer used pbooks. Then more people will switch over the ebooks, reducing the demand of used pbooks in line with what's available. Market forces will sort it all out.

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