Logic? What Logic

[treadlightly]

Originally Posted by treadlightly

Pick something much more expensive, lobby for that endlessly, and after the eventual failure, accept what you really want as the compromise.

Originally Posted by Solicitous

I think you all need to man up!!

This is just tried and true advice. Husband lobbied for a new $4000 tri bike, but "settled" for $1200 race wheels, and I suggested a $900 rowing machine, but am now getting my iPad. And everyone lived happily ever after...

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by treadlightly

This is just tried and true advice. Husband lobbied for a new $4000 tri bike, but "settled" for $1200 race wheels, and I suggested a $900 rowing machine, but am now getting my iPad. And everyone lived happily ever after...

What happens if the partner agrees to buy that expensive stuff you don't really want?

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

What happens if the partner agrees to buy that expensive stuff you don't really want?

They change their minds.
Remember, both are playing the same game.
Reminds me of Paul Reiser in the pilot for MAD ABOUT YOU:
"Marriage means you put up with my crap and I put up with yours."

Substitute "toys" for "crap" and live happily ever after.

[HansTWN]

Well, every wife is different. If I lobbied hard for something very expensive she would probably come around. While I can't see the old bait and switch working --- she would get mad if she found out I pulled a stunt like that. And is smart enough to figure it out. Not to mention that lately she really doesn't want to buy anything for herself...

[TGS]

Throughout my life I have generally found that it's easier - in terms of time spent, mutual irritation and natural justice - to take the flak for doing something for which I haven't got prior approval, than it is to wear down resistance by pretending what I am arguing for is supported by logic - which it usually isn't.

[Katsunami]

Do wives need any approval to do anything? I wonder if there are forums where wives complain about having to get approval to buy shoes.

With me, it's simple. I buy what I want without permission, and you can buy what you want, also without permission, assuming the prices and amounts of purchases on both ends are reasonable. (Rest assured, I won't buy an $2000 laptop without talking about that first.) I make that very clear from the beginning.

If a lady has trouble grasping that simple concept, she can either leave, or eventually be thrown out. I'm not going to beg for trivial $100 purchases that come around every one or two years, certainly not if the money spent is less than a dinner for two, which we'll have far more often.

It seems a lot of ladies are control freaks with regard to money (even if they are not the ones earning it) as I'm single most of the time, with me being the one to quit the relationship, with exactly this as the main point. Sometimes I have the feeling that women are brought up by their mothers with the notion that they have to control the entire household, especially the money.

I just don't put up with that crap. I'd rather be single and lead a simple life.

[cfrizz]

As a woman I would rather stay single then put up with some boy that refuses to grow up and only thinks about getting toys rather than think about the rest of the responsibilities that are needed to keep a household running smoothly.

I am a part of an audio forum, and the amount of gear these guys go through simply because they want to try EVERYTHING is just insane.

Now if they are single, go for it the only one you have to answer to is yourself and when you have to have a fire sale of all that gear you just bought because an emergency expenditure comes up and you have no money to pay for it, well don't expect any sympathy from me.

But if you are married it is a whole other deal. When all the bills are paid, food is in the fridge, and all other necessities are taken care of, with an emergency fund well stocked than by all means treat yourself to a new toy.

Guys seem to lose this perspective, all they know is they want a new toy to play with on top of the 20 they already got this year which are in perfect working order. Then they have the nerve to get upset when the wife puts up a fuss about toy 21.

I have seen more than one guy come on there and talk about his marriage ending, and I wonder how much of it was over all the money he wasted trying to buy every audio gadget he could get his hands on when he already put together SEVERAL systems that sounded and worked just fine!

So I would rather remain single than have to go through that kind of garbage. I have put together a terrific audio/video system and haven't upgraded in years. So while I understand the want, I never let it get in the way of my common sense of what is more important.

[Victoria]

My two cents: I think your logic 'failed', because you tried to justify the purchase, by focusing on your wife, and 'her' tv - that's guaranteed to make the other person feel defensive.

Just stick to 'you'. Tell your wife how much you'd enjoy it, why adding notes are important to you, or why the larger screen size would be helpful. Give her an opportunity to feel the warm satisfaction of knowing you would have pleasure - she cares about you - rather than try to make her feel badly about watching tv - which it sounds like she already does.

Sometimes discussions aren't about logic, they are about feelings and relationships.

[DuskyRose]

Originally Posted by cfrizz

As a woman I would rather stay single then put up with some boy that refuses to grow up and only thinks about getting toys rather than think about the rest of the responsibilities that are needed to keep a household running smoothly.

Yeah, I've seen that. {sigh} Both my sisters suffered through marriages to men who couldn't care less if the bills were paid or their kids were fed. Only their addiction was Hunting/Fishing equipment. I'm sure we all know those stories from friends and relatives.

And, yes, I know of women who've messed up marriages because they had addictions of their own that their lifestyle couldn't support.

But, honestly, when Hubby asks for something that's beyond our current "Toy" budget he's not really asking 'permission', he's asking if we can afford it without putting us in a bad situation. Some weeks, an extra $100 spent is a problem. Other times it's not. He has no interest in handling the household money, and has left it up to me for 30 years. He trusts that if I bring up something I want then I already know it's doable. Otherwise, I wouldn't be bringing up the subject, because I'd already know it's not a good thing. Like me, sometimes he just has to wait for what he wants, because we need to budget for it, knowingly not eating out for a while or taking the money from something else we don't want/need as much. Eventually, though, we usually manage it.

In any relationship there's only so much money coming in at one time. It's respectful to ask first, before putting the family in a bind they didn't have to be in, if only everyone had been on the same page.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by cfrizz

As a woman I would rather stay single then put up with some boy that refuses to grow up and only thinks about getting toys rather than think about the rest of the responsibilities that are needed to keep a household running smoothly.

[...]

But if you are married it is a whole other deal. When all the bills are paid, food is in the fridge, and all other necessities are taken care of, with an emergency fund well stocked than by all means treat yourself to a new toy.

I fully agree, and all of that is the case here, at least has been for many a year.

Point is, even a new high-end computer every half a year wouldn't even begin to put my household in trouble, let alone an e-reader would. If my computer hard drive is full or breaks, I just buy another one, without a second thought. Those sort of expenses just don't matter here, as long as I keep my job and don't go completely fracking crazy.

Still I often met women (over the last 10 years) who very quickly turn out to be control freaks, who behave as if I am (we are) spending our last dime on toys when we should be buying food or clothing. It's just not the case. I hate that sort of obsessive control when it's not necessary. It sours the relationship, and it makes my hair stand on end.

Maybe I'm just in the wrong country and/or meeting the wrong women. Maybe many of those women have lived with partners that actually *couldn't* afford something like an e-reader a year. I don't know.

I am a part of an audio forum, and the amount of gear these guys go through simply because they want to try EVERYTHING is just insane.

Audiophiles are often just... eh... freaks. Especially if they're men. They seem to start hearing a difference between different lossless formats, upgrade €1000 speakers to €1500 speakers, and some even seem to think that a specific color wallpaper will improve the audio.

Cars have the same sort effects on a lot of men.

"If I get my sportscar tuned like that, for only €1000, then it'll drive MUCH smoother at speeds over 200 kp/h!"
- "Eh... in this country, 120 kp/h is the limit."
"Yes, but..."

That's crazy. No woman should put up with that sort of crap, even if it can be afforded.

Guys seem to lose this perspective, all they know is they want a new toy to play with on top of the 20 they already got this year which are in perfect working order. Then they have the nerve to get upset when the wife puts up a fuss about toy 21.

That's why I said: "If the prices and amount of purchases are reasonable."

I have seen more than one guy come on there and talk about his marriage ending, and I wonder how much of it was over all the money he wasted trying to buy every audio gadget he could get his hands on when he already put together SEVERAL systems that sounded and worked just fine!

I can fully agree with those women leaving, as that's not normal. (IMHO.) It's far different of wanting a new e-reader every other year.

So while I understand the want, I never let it get in the way of my common sense of what is more important.

Indeed. That's why I don't upgrade to the Paperwhite 2. The improvements are there, but they're small, and my KPW1 works perfectly.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by DuskyRose

But, honestly, when Hubby asks for something that's beyond our current "Toy" budget he's not really asking 'permission', he's asking if we can afford it without putting us in a bad situation. Some weeks, an extra $100 spent is a problem. Other times it's not. He has no interest in handling the household money, and has left it up to me for 30 years.

If he's happy with you managing the money and knows that you do it well and are honest if you say "We can't afford that right now", then it's a very good situation.

In my case, it's the other way around. I manage my own household money, so I know what can and can't be afforded. It has been like that for a long time, and I have no interest in handing that management over to anyone else.

Quite some women I've met during my life were unable to handle that situation. To them, it just seemed to "not be the normal way of doing things" or something.

Old ingrained role-patterns probably: the man works and earns the money, the woman runs the household and sees that everything goes smoothly.

In any relationship there's only so much money coming in at one time. It's respectful to ask first, before putting the family in a bind they didn't have to be in, if only everyone had been on the same page.

Agree. And as I said in my first post, one can rest assured that I won't spend a large amount of money without discussing it first, even though as you said, if I do discuss it, I already know it will not be a problem.

[Salgueiros]

Originally Posted by saiyuki

Hi all. The background (to clarify my predicament), is that as a full time carer for my disabled wife, it's natural that she has priority over what others would deem a trivial matter. Limited funds aside, it's what carers do We often find ourselves looking for ways to alleviate the guilt we feel when (yes), we do ask for something. I think you'll find most long term carers feel exactly the same way (see, i'm even doing it here ).

I still do not understand what has this to do with your decision to buy something you need (i assume you need it). If money is not an issue, i don't see why the guilt and why your wife should interfere with your reading habits. I also assume you do not want to read the whole day or want to read instead of doing the tasks that you used to do before or that you want to read now while you did not read before... so, i still do not understand your dilemma. I assume (again) your wife, since she loves you, would not like to be a burden on you so i think you should not make it worse than it is by making her the "cause" of you not "reading". I think she probably already has enough to worry about, no?

And what kind of guilt do you feel? Are you responsible for her condition? Why is it more guilty to ask her for something than to ask to another wife that was not disabled had you had one?

[cfrizz]

Originally Posted by DuskyRose

Yeah, I've seen that. {sigh} Both my sisters suffered through marriages to men who couldn't care less if the bills were paid or their kids were fed. Only their addiction was Hunting/Fishing equipment. I'm sure we all know those stories from friends and relatives.

And, yes, I know of women who've messed up marriages because they had addictions of their own that their lifestyle couldn't support.

But, honestly, when Hubby asks for something that's beyond our current "Toy" budget he's not really asking 'permission', he's asking if we can afford it without putting us in a bad situation. Some weeks, an extra $100 spent is a problem. Other times it's not. He has no interest in handling the household money, and has left it up to me for 30 years. He trusts that if I bring up something I want then I already know it's doable. Otherwise, I wouldn't be bringing up the subject, because I'd already know it's not a good thing. Like me, sometimes he just has to wait for what he wants, because we need to budget for it, knowingly not eating out for a while or taking the money from something else we don't want/need as much. Eventually, though, we usually manage it.

In any relationship there's only so much money coming in at one time. It's respectful to ask first, before putting the family in a bind they didn't have to be in, if only everyone had been on the same page.

You NAILED it !!!Congrats on your successful 30 years of marriage, may you have 30 more!

[DuskyRose]

Originally Posted by cfrizz

You NAILED it !!!Congrats on your successful 30 years of marriage, may you have 30 more!

Thanks. I do intend to keep him for a while.

[saiyuki]

Hi all. Interesting perspectives all round

Originally Posted by Salgueiros

And what kind of guilt do you feel? Are you responsible for her condition? Why is it more guilty to ask her for something than to ask to another wife that was not disabled had you had one?

I know i am not responsible for my wife's condition, but you would need to be a full time carer over a long period to understand what we feel. I personally know of carers that cannot handle it and have chosen to walk away, but many choose to accept the role without another thought. This is the point where the person being cared for becomes the center of everything.

I worked for 40 very active years building offshore powerboats, then i stopped suddenly to look after my wife. Hmmm, no money, no mates to banter with, no daily routine, yes it's sad, but it's reality.

Even compromises are heavily biased towards the person being cared for because they simply cannot do what a 'normal' person can, and we give as much as possible to help. Every day i feel guilty about my wife's condition. Fairy dust is just not available where i live. It's a standing joke in my house where my wife watches soaps in one room, and i read books in another (i like to read in silence).

I think I've said a bit too much. Sorry

Regards