"Two or three" and the strange ____

[Istvan diVega]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

It's pretty common in some older literature - look at the "Marquise von O" for a particularly annoying example. It's basically a literary device to make the story seem like it is based on a true story - the Marquise von O..., the city of M...., the Colonel G..., etc. are all supposed to be real people whose names have to be changed. It was supposed to add verisimilitude.

I've encountered that, for instance in the book you mention; it's the underscores I'm fairly sure I've never, ever seen.

[Istvan diVega]

Originally Posted by NightGeometry

The version of Pride and Prejudice I read used the ____ convention in a number of places, from memory especially when referring to military units.

Originally Posted by Seraphine

To add another example to the throng, my edition of Les Misérables uses ______.

Interesting. I've read both, but have neither to hand in print, so I can't check to see if my memory is defective or not. My ebook edition of Le Miserable (Vintage Books, London; translation by Julie Rose) has no underscores as far as I can see, though I've not checked every single page. Pride and Prejudice, in the guise of HarryT's most excellent edition, also seems to have none after a quick check of 50 or so pages.

It seems strange (and wrong) to me that they should have been removed in translations or re-prints if they where there in the original, but maybe that's nevertheless the case? The alternative is that my memory has finally gone to pot completely, which is an even less pleasing proposition....

[latepaul]

The Medical Man was standing before the fire with a sheet of paper in one hand and his watch in the other. I looked round for the Time Traveller, and--'It's half-past seven now,' said the Medical Man. 'I suppose we'd better have dinner?'

'Where's----?' said I, naming our host.

'You have told Blank, and Dash, and Chose about the machine?' he said to me, leaning back in his easy-chair and naming the three new guests.

Those are from H.G. Wells' The Time Machine. I always thought it was curious that he adopted this style of giving characters titles instead of names - The Medical Man, The Psychologist, The Editor, The Provincial Mayor, The Very Young Man and of course the very first sentence of the book is:

The Time Traveller (for so it will be convenient to speak of him) was expounding a recondite matter to us.

Why is it 'convenient'? I wonder whether the idea was to make it as generic as possible so that it could be happening out there somewhere if only you knew who these particular men were?

It's also odd that there's one character called Filby present with all these Titles.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Istvan diVega

Interesting. I've read both, but have neither to hand in print, so I can't check to see if my memory is defective or not. My ebook edition of Le Miserable (Vintage Books, London; translation by Julie Rose) has no underscores as far as I can see, though I've not checked every single page. Pride and Prejudice, in the guise of HarryT's most excellent edition, also seems to have none after a quick check of 50 or so pages.

It seems strange (and wrong) to me that they should have been removed in translations or re-prints if they where there in the original, but maybe that's nevertheless the case? The alternative is that my memory has finally gone to pot completely, which is an even less pleasing proposition....

All versions of "Pride and Prejudice" use "__" as the name of Mr Wickham's regiment. Check your copy again.

The original version of "Les Miserables" uses "___" for place names, but many later editions and translations fill in the blanks. The very first sentence of the book (in English translation) is:

In 1815, M. Charles-Francois-Bienvenu Myriel was Bishop of D——

In later versions, this is often changed to "Dijon".

[elemenoP]

I wondered that when I read P&P, too, since there are plenty of other place names that are named in full. I didn't notice it was a military regiment, which makes sense (in that you aren't supposed to say exactly where a military regiment is).

But Harry, what do you make of the second example? Why did Hugo choose conceal the place names?

eP

[HarryT]

It was a common literary convention of the time. I believe the reason for it was to make it appear that you were telling a true story, but wanted to conceal the location in which it took place.

[elemenoP]

As far as "maybe 5 or 6," I can see an author making this choice. If the story is told in the first person, then the author is indicating that the narrator had a less than comprehensive view of the scene, maybe a quick look. The narrator is fallible in his/her observations.

If the story is told in the 3rd person, well, some 3rd person narrators are more omniscient than others. See the discussion here of third person subjective, third person objective, and third person omniscient. Adding that kind of ambiguity would be fitting for the first type, third person objective or limited.

Oops here is the link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-p....2C_subjective

eP

[Istvan diVega]

Originally Posted by HarryT

All versions of "Pride and Prejudice" use "__" as the name of Mr Wickham's regiment. Check your copy again.

The original version of "Les Miserables" uses "___" for place names, but many later editions and translations fill in the blanks. The very first sentence of the book (in English translation) is:

In later versions, this is often changed to "Dijon".

I must have managed to miss any reference to the regiment in my random page checks then. Thank you for the correction. Admittedly I haven't actually read through the ebook, it was just my edition of choice for my Calibre library.

As far as Les Miserables and other books go I suppose I'll put it down to later editions and translations, that being the preferable explanation.

[Penforhire]

The first example, not naming a specific number, provides a very different vision of the scene.

If you say "five boys playing ball" then I see five individual boys and a static (snapshot)scene with them in the foreground and in clear visual focus.

If you say "five or six..." then I see a cloud of boys. They are in the background, not as much in focus, and they are in motion. This is not an exact science but it clearly sets a different view of the scene.

[Katsunami]

Thanks for all the input about the first example and the thoughts behind writing it that way.

With regard to the second one, I had thought the omission of the names (which can of course not only be done by ___, but also ---- and ——, which Harry used) may have had another meaning apart from... well... omitting the names to keep them anonymous.

[pendragginp]

Nope, that's why.